Free Will and Foreknowledge

by TheUbermensch 70 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  tec

  Where the parents can't be there, others pick it up.

  Well, my parents aren't telling me what I can and can't do right now. They can't enforce anything. I am a free person to do as I choose - be that good or bad. If I didn't have that choice, then I would be a slave. Less than a slave (a slave can still choose what they do; their consequences just might be different)... I would be a robot.

  Most of us would not sit idly by as people starve millions of humans for political gain. But our strength and ability are severely limited, but we do all in our power to put a stop to it. Now if there were only someone with limitless power and knowledge. . .

  I have to disagree here, I'm sorry. Most of us DO sit idly by as people starve... whatever the reason they are starving for. We're busy with out lives. We might give out of our e X cess, but not out of what we need/want for our mortgages, games, cars, fuel, nights out, toys, phones, computers, movies, etc, etc.

  Some do not sit idly by. But most of us do.

  You sound like you care very very much, NC. Most others care when it is convenient to do so. Or they care very much, but perhaps feel helpless and so do nothing.

  But we (humanity) have the capacity to ensure that no one starves to death. Yet is isn't happening. Even in our own backyards, there are starving and homeless and freezing people (depending on your winters). How can that happen here in such a rich country? Because too many people turn their heads away from it. I'm no better. I'm hoping and trying to be better.

  Peace,

  Tammy
• 

  N.drew

  Hi Tammy, peace! In the USA we have many houses vacant. We have families with two, three or more places to live in different seasons or for various whims. We throw away too much good food to even imagine. And people are homeless and go hungry. It's God's fault? How so?

  I think we might be straying off topic. Sorry!
• 

  tec

  Peace to you as well, N.Drew... and yes, thank you; that is the point I was making as well.
• 

  NewChapter

  Okay ladies. Here is my point. We CAN turn our heads and therefore not see. If there were a god as you describe him, he cannot turn his head and not see. If this god exists, he also would have a great deal more power. While I may not be able to stop my adult daughter from taking drugs (she doesn't) I would still yank her out of a street. Because I would know, and I would have the power to do so. And if it was not my daughter, I would do the same.

  We don't all work that way, of course. But the board was full of condemnation when so many people ignored that toddler in China after she'd been struck by a car. How inhumane. How could they? We watched them weave around her (not me personally, I couldn't watch it) and it disgusted us. Because they knew about it and had the power to help, but they didn't. They knew, they had the power to help and they didn't! It was unacceptable. But for some reason, when it comes to this god, it is not only acceptable, but wise.----and loving. Not only did he know, he knew ahead of time, which addresses the OP.

  I simply see it as a contradiction, one of many, but I'm sure you don't see it that way. I kind of already know what your replies will be, and you kind of know I won't accept them---but another good conversation! Thank you my friends.

  NC
• 

  Shanagirl

  I see the OT god a contradiction of the NT God that was spoken of by Jesus Christ.

  Shana
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  N.drew

  That is correct. The Old Testament upheld the Law. The New Testament witnesses Jesus Christ, the end of the OT law.
• 

  Ding

  I see the OT god a contradiction of the NT God that was spoken of by Jesus Christ.

  Jesus didn't seem to see his teachings as contradiction of the OT. He frequently quoted the OT scriptures to back up his statements. He doesn't say, "The scriptures are wrong about God. Here, listen to me instead." Even in his "You have heard it said... but I say to you..." teachings, he extends the OT requirements rather than abolishing them or undermining their authority by claiming that God wasn't behind them.
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  OnTheWayOut

  If God knows the outcome for everyone, there would be no point in the recruiting work of JW's. Of course they have to suppress the idea that God knows all and say that He chooses not to look.
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  N.drew

  I believe if there was a place of the gathering of seekers of truth and righteousness there would be little need for recruitment. They would find each other. Because Jesus is the Way. No propaganda necessary. Buddha can come too, and any other supreme type person of sorts. Anyone. So free will might even be used as a tool. (Back on topic-it ain't easy!)
• 

  WontLeave

  I keep hearing that God is omniscient from churches and preachers. Please, someone show me where God claimed to be omniscient. Knowing from the beginning, the finale isn't the same, since he's going to cause the finale. Knowing whether someone is good or bad isn't the same as knowing their every future act. I know people I can see are good or bad, but that doesn't make me omniscient.

  There's a big difference between knowing everything that can be known and knowing everything. Once you make God "magic", you invalidate every argument you can ever make for his existence, because you've dumbed your belief down to the illogical and impossible, going beyond what is written and into the realm of fairy tales. Some would argue the Bible is already there on its own, so why complicate further the task of communicating the message to them?