Watchtower’s Judicial System

by Marvin Shilmer 46 Replies latest jw friends

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  Quendi

  I think, with respect, that all this talk about legal proceedings, rights of the accused, and courtroom formalities misses the point. Nugget hit the nail right on the head. The judicial committee arrangement is there to determine if the sinner or wrongdoer is repentant of the actions they are accused or suspected of doing. Yes, a person can use the proceedings to clear his or her name if a false accusation has been made, and sometimes false charges are exposed and the accused is vindicated. But the real purpose behind this is "to keep the congregation clean" and to disfellowship "unrepentant wrongdoers", period.

  All the talk about how to present a case, who can serve on a judicial committee, etc, is only window dressing to give the appearance of being honest, fair, and open. In effect, the WTS believes and teaches that a judicial committee is formed merely to affirm the decision that Jehovah and Jesus have already made with respect to the "sinner". That is how it was explained to the congregation I associated with and what I was told when I met with my judicial committee. Nobody accused me of wrongdoing in my case. I confessed and met with the committee to see what would be done. I was disfellowshipped because it was determined that I was a 'practicer of sin' and had to be kicked out for the good of the congregation despite the fact that I posed no danger spiritually or otherwise to anybody else. It is important to emphasize that any decision made by a judicial committee--disfellowshipping, public or private reproof, or dismissal of charges--is seen as confirmation of a divine edict. Holy spirit supposedly guides the elders to their decision.

  That gives considerable latitude to the elders who sit on any judicial or appeals committee. It means that secular legal jurisprudence or law has no bearing on how a judicial case is to be handled. Oh, there may be some deference given them, but if anybody wants to use them as a basis for procedure, he will not have that opportunity. Since the Bible is also silent on such matters other than to say if someone is accused of wrongdoing that must be attested to by two or three witnesses, the WTS is free to make up its own procedures and move accordingly.

  I haven't read the article yet but will do so. However, I thought I should make this point first. We are not talking about a judicial system that is subject to any review or sanction by a secular or higher authority. That is of the utmost importance to keep in mind. Any reform and/or change will come only because the Governing Body has decided to make it. Since those men are not answerable to anyone else, and because in many lands they enjoy a constitutional right to handle "internal affairs" as they see fit, I wouldn't look for the WTS judicial system to change.

  Quendi
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  Mad Sweeney

  Holy spirit supposedly guides the elders to their decision.

  That assumption is one of the main things that drove me to investigate the Borg for myself. I was told as much, and more, to my face when I knew it wasn't true (because I knew their decision - which wasn't a DF case BTW - was wrong).

  We are not talking about a judicial system that is subject to any review or sanction by a secular or higher authority. That is of the utmost importance to keep in mind.

  Absolutely true. It is one of the key identifying marks of dangerous high control religious sects.
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  Band on the Run

  It shows the influence cults have. People raised with Western notions of justice and fair play will deny all their cultural background if a religion demands it. I doubt they would throw out the window for a court case, a school displine issue, traffic court. Religion carries with it sanctity. The Judicial Council is definitely not discussed in the New Testament. No early Christian Church Father wrote about it. It is only a creation of a bunch of men, who must someday stand naked, and yet it is obeyed. It is obeyed and has enormous legitimacy. From my own experience,even those of us who view the Witnesses with revulsion and unbelief are greatly affected by Witness actions. Look at me as a prime example, decades later I get worked up about what people post here. If I gave them no legitimacy, what should it matter to me? The pain is deep inside me. Only those raised in cults can truly understand.

  The men who wrote these rules and follow them were also raised with western notions of fair play and a level playing field. Due process rights are trumpeted every night on TV in cop and law shows. The TV news is full of debates about how criminals are coddled. Despite this immersion, they have the arrogance to deprive others of these human rights. Rights that our Declaration of Indpendence asserts are God-given. We are born with the. They are not privileges. What type of man lightly throws these values overboard when there is no mention in scripture that they are false?

  Growing up the brothers were gods. I strove so hard to be good for them, more than God. God did not burden my life. They did. It was so arbitrary - just as their rules enshrine arbitrariness and capricious. Arbitrary and capricious is a legal term for what cannot be permitted by anyone promulgating regulations. They put their pants on one leg at a time. I submit they are mentally ill.
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  InterestedOne

  Maybe I'm just slow, but if they DF you for something petty, like sleeping over someone's house once, I thought the idea is that you can always talk to the elders, and if you explain that you will try to never do it again, show a strong desire to be "one of Jehovah's Witnesses TM ," and demonstrate that you are willing to follow their code of conduct, you can be reinstated. Maybe I'm just clueless as an outsider, but I would think, for someone that actually wanted to be in the cult, this would be easy. In the example of sleeping over someone's house, I would think you could say, "oh I'm sorry, I realize how that could give a bad impression & bring reproach on Jehovah's name, blah blah. Please, brother AlphaMale, adjust my thinking, and I promise never to do something like that again. I will do whatever little book study you recommend to help me." My study conductor explained that people who remain DF'd are people who don't want to follow the org code of conduct anyway. If they showed a desire to conform their lives to it, they would be welcomed back. Sorry if I'm sounding thick-headed here.

  Would you say one of the main problems is that the elders can always refuse to allow the black-balled person back by prolonging the reinstatement process indefinitely? I could see how this could become corrupt if the elders don't like the person because, as Marvin's article pointed out, their decisions are made in secret. Am I correct that someone who wants to be in the cult could be denied at the whim of the elders even if that person was showing all the signs of proper cult behavior and attitude?
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  Quendi

  The reinstatement process can take as long as the judicial committee wants; and if the person seeking reinstatement is not liked, years can go by before this is granted. InterestedOne asks the question if this can be done indefinitely. The answer is certainly yes. This was true in my case. Everytime I submitted a letter requesting reinstatement, the elders came up with petty excuses why they could not grant this. One time it was that I would not sit in the place the attendants wanted me to sit. Another time it was that I came to the meetings without the publications that were being considered or studied. On another occasion the stipulation was that I obviously was not studying and preparing for the meetings. I was also told that "not enough time" had elapsed for my case to be seriously reconsidered.

  Eventually, I realized the truth of what one elder told me. "They don't want to reinstate you, and they will do anything to keep you out." I initially wanted to be reinstated because I truly believed the WTS was God's organization. After finally understanding that it wasn't, I sought to return simply to renew my ties with the people in the organization I still loved. I at last realized that none of my efforts was worth all this pain and trouble. When I was put off yet again last year--after nearly five years of trying--I broke off all contact with the local congregations and their elders. I had had enough, and realized that I was wasting my time and efforts. Besides, I have a life to live, and putting it on hold waiting on men who clearly did not want me back in their organization was foolish.

  What was curious about my experience was that my original offense no longer mattered. The hurdles that were placed before me and the hoops I was made to jump through were created by the whims of the elders. I had always been an independent thinker and it became clear that the elders wanted to turn me into a drone like themselves. There was no way I was going to submit to that, no way I would surrender my God-given free will and power of reason. I am most grateful now to be free, and I will never even consider going back. The loss of my friends has been a painful one and I took time to mourn and grieve. Today I am moving forward and rediscovering my joie de vivre.

  Quendi
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  Mad Sweeney

  Another thing that happens with DFd ones many times is that after being freed from the MANY obligations that the good-standing members are under, you start building a life for yourself on the outside. Then you aren't in much of a hurry to return anyway. This doesn't always happen but it can and does.

  One of the BIG reasons a body of elders/judicial committee will DF a person or refuse reinstatement is if they think you a "proud" (which is a Borg code-word for having normal self-esteem). If you feel like you "should be" reinstated, then you shouldn't be. If you express to them that you don't think you did anything wrong, you are too proud to admit your sinfulness and need to be DFd.
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  Quendi

  I don't doubt the elders thought me "proud", Mad Sweeney. I questioned and challenged them at every turn during our often tumultuous meetings. I also attacked WTS doctrine and teaching, telling the elders that neither they nor the WTS could prove their assertions. That probably made them all the more determined to keep me out until I "humbled" myself. But because I wouldn't and also refused to grovel at their feet begging for pardon and forgiveness, they concluded that more time was needed to get me to come around to the proper Witness way of thinking. You are also right to say the longer some stay out the more they value their new-found freedom. I certainly have.

  Quendi