by brotherdan 68 Replies latest jw experiences
The universal "golden rule" is an example.
The golden rule is not taught in all religions. Extreme islamic religions are not that way. They don't wish to be bombed by a suicide bomber, yet they do that to others.
Also, there MUST be absolute truth by nature. The argument of all truth being "relative" is self defeating.
I get your point, I dont agree with it. I think the preacher was more on the right track. I'd rather not judge anyone as "untruthful" and accept people for who they are, and then let God sort it out in the end.
The golden rule is not taught in all religions. Extreme islamic religions are not that way. They don't wish to be bombed by a suicide bomber, yet they do that to others.
I think you're wrong BroDan, just because there are extremists in a religion doesn't mean the religion itself is bad:
It's not hard to find this stuff BroDan. Just a quick check on google you will find that there are over 21 religions with similar versions of the golden rule.
The "golden rule" is a mainstay in every mainstream religion, for obvious reasons.
Yes it is true that at times the rule is subjective only to certain people ( like "true believers" or people of the same "caste"), on a whole most religions have it as a general rule to follow.
Christianity takes it to another level, but that isn't the point right now.
The issue is that, in theory, most religions have more in common than people tend t realize or even admit.
MrsJones makes a great point. And what about the Indian tribes that were around BEFORE the Bible? Some Indian tribes got along peacefully, they had their own values that worked for them. To judge them as "lost" or "hellbound" or "not of God" because they didnt use the Bible's golden rule is not reasonable to me.
Also, im not sure its accurate to call it universal if people were getting by peacefully before the Bible was written. I think its more accurate to say that humans have the universal ability to live by moral codes/golden rules. The writers of the Bible wrote down theirs, and we can learn from it. Just like the other groups listed in MrsJones post above.
If you want to believe God put that ability into humans, im on board with that. But if your going to tell me that the ONLY true universal golden rule is the one in the Bible, and that all other groups who have their own golden rule are of the devil or not of God or untruthful, thats where I disagree.
I'd rather not judge anyone as "untruthful"
So it's not untrue that those that do not become Christians will go to hell? Don't you see that by nature there is a very clear point here. All things cannot be true. There are clear contradictions. Hindus believe in thousands of Gods. Is that true? Christians believe that there is only 1 God. Is that true? Atheists believe that there is NO god. Is that true?
Can't you see that these things cannot all be true?
mrsjones, yes the claims are there for the golden rule, but the facts don't add up. Look at these comment from the Koran:
“Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. (5:51)
“You will find that the most implacable of men in their enmity to the faithful are the Jews and pagans. (5:82)
“The Jews say: ‘Allah’s hand is chained.’ May their own hands be chained! May they be cursed for what they say! (5:64)
“Had the People of the Book [Jews and Christians] accepted the Faith, it would surely have been better for them. Some are true believers, but most of them are evil-doers. (3:111)
“Men have a status above women. (2:228)
“Women are your fields: go, then, into your fields whence you please. (2:224)
“Men have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because Allah has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them, forsake them in beds apart, and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. surely Allah is high, supreme. (4:34)
“Do not befriend [apostates] until they have fled their homes in the cause of Allah. If they desert you, seize them and put them to death wherever you find them. (4:90)
“The true believers fight for the cause of Allah, but the infidels fight for the devil. Fight then against the friends of Satan. (4:76)
“Allah is the enemy of the unbelievers. (2:98)
“Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. (9:123)
“Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you may dislike it. (2:216)
“The unbelievers are your inveterate foe. (4:101)
“Idolatry is more grievous than bloodshed. (2:192)
“Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah’s religion reigns supreme. (2:193)
None of that is very golden rule-ish...
Dan,
Dude! You can find the equivalent to all of that in your Bible.
brotherdan, you ask those questions as if you know more than we do. so you tell me, which of those things can you prove with certainty? do you have tangible, emprical evidence that all non-christians go to hell? have you been to hell? or do you have footage of hell? how can YOU say these things are so without evidence?
you talk as if you have been to hell and know for a certanty that it exists. if thats the case, and you know all this for sure, more power to you.
i have been researching things like this for almost 2 years, and i cannot say with certainty that hell exists, or all non christians go to hell. there are verses in the bible that can be interpited that way, but they can also be interpited other ways. there is also questions about which verses were originally in there. there is also evidence that the catholic church used the hell teaching much like the witnesses with armegeddon to keep the ignorant masses in line and in fear so they would be obedient to the leaders.
but apparantly you have discovered the truth about hell and what happens to non-christians with an absolute certainty. so maybe there is something wrong with me.
I'd also like to add something, Dan, if you are going to pick out parts of the Koran that are harsh you need to be fair and pick out parts of the Bible that are harsh.
While the Koran can at times be harsh, so can the OT.
Dan I hate to say it - but watching you quote mine the koran, and ignore how you do the same thing with bible - it really shows you're attached to your beliefs without reason or logic. Sorry bro - calling it like it is. I'm sure you'll come up with some excuse as to why you don't see yourself as you are. Keep looking into yourself though, eventually you'll find peace when you leave the cognitive dissonance behind.
