CT Russell Funeral Picture (page 4)

diamondiiz

gone home? Resurrection didn't start until 1918????? lol Rutherford was keeping the sacred secret sealed at the funeral from the others.

jehovahsheep

what a morbid pathetic group of eccentrics!

crazy2try

They guy in the middle looks like a famous general.

Chalam: Stephen, Why do posters wade around like treacle in early teachings of a man? Every JW knows that the "Russellites" were a heady concoction of Adventism and several other Bible Student groups.... It started with what is patently farcical theology in parts... such was the revivalism of the late 1800's.

My own WT exposure was approx. 1969 - 1984 during which I spent 4 years at Bethel and 6 years as a Regular Pioneer. Studying in library at Bethel, threw up much of this questionable teaching. I urge you to follow each thread and see how it was thrown out. Whereas, I agree with the retort that the "new light" often flickers.. (and I have my own reservations on current teachings).. the Bible is quite clear on the Resurrection of Jesus and Mankind in general.

For that reason, I urge you to put aside jousting at WT and stick to the Bible itself. Please read, in several translations, 1 Corinthians 15.

All will be revealed with the help of the Holy Spirit.

Blessings.

Podo

Chalam

Podo, you are quite correct, there is no point trying to get to the bottom of what the WT teach as it is a constantly shifting sand.

The bible is clear, if you are born again, born of the Spirit

2 Corinthians 5:5-8 (New International Version)

5 Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

6 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7 We live by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Philippians 1:21-24 (New International Version)

21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24 but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.

For those that aren't Matthew 8:12, Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50, Matthew 22:13, Matthew 24:51, Matthew 25:30

Luke 13:28 (New International Version)

28 "There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.

Blessings,

Stephen

Podobear

And equally.. Paul shows that much of mankind "sleeps" in death awaiting the resurrection as Our Lord deems fit.

There is no perpetual bungy jump across the universe, but an orderly restoration of All things in Heaven and on Earth, and a resurrection with a purpose.

WT doctrine is NOT constantly shifting Stephen, it has progressed and for the most part rejected false Hellenic/Chaldean influences that have corrupted the Judeo/Christian church of the first century. Agreed, there are areas of WT teaching that need revisiting.

Their understanding of the Resurrection is however, much clearer than that of the Established Church. I urge you again, to read THE WHOLE of 1 Corinthians 15 and pray for the Holy Spirit to guide you as you do so. It is wonderfully revealing.

Blessing

Podo

Chalam

1 Corinthians 15 (New International Version)

The Resurrection of Christ

1 Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. OK, we'd better pay attention!

3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

So there is the Gospel, pure and simple. The gospel of salvation of the WT is NOT this though, ask a JW about what salvation means to them.

9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11 Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

Once again Paul reaffirms the gospel "this is what we preach, and this is what you believed."

The Resurrection of the Dead

12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. JW preach that Christ was not resurrected in a physical body as Christ Himself claimed Luke 24:39 but rather as a "spirit creature". I agree with Paul, their preaching is unfortunately useless and so is their faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men. Jehovah's Witness are false witnesses about God, they testify that He did not raise Jesus from the dead as Luke 24 claims. Paul reiterates, their faith is futile and they are still in their sins. Those JW who have fallen asleep are lost.

20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Once again Paul reaffirms the Gospel and the hope we have who are in Christ, bodily resurrection in a physical body of flesh and bones, made alive in Christ.

29 Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? 30 And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour? 31 I die every day—I mean that, brothers—just as surely as I glory over you in Christ Jesus our Lord. 32 If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for merely human reasons, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised,
"Let us eat and drink,
for tomorrow we die." 33 Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character." 34 Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God—I say this to your shame.

The Resurrection Body

35 But someone may ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. Paul describes the resurrection body with our mortal bodies, of the same kind but different. If the resurrection body is non-physical then it is a completely different kind, which it is not.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.

50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."
55 "Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?" 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

Here's some notes from the ESV Study bible to conclude

1 Cor. 15:35–58 The Nature of the Resurrection Body. Apparently the Corinthians did not understand how material bodies, subject as they were to sickness, death, and eventual decay, could live eternally. In this section, Paul explains that God will change the bodies of believers to make them immortal.

1 Cor. 15:42 imperishable. No longer subject to physical decay or aging.

1 Cor. 15:43 dishonor … glory. These terms have to do with outward physical appearance: the Christian's resurrection body will be physically attractive beyond anything imaginable.

1 Cor. 15:44–47 natural. The Greek term ispsychikos, the adjectival form of the noun psyche, which is translated being in v. 45 and can also be rendered “life” or “animated existence.” Paul's contrast between “natural” and “spiritual” is a contrast between that which is temporally alive and that which has an eternal existence with God (cf.2:14–3:3). Starting from Gen. 2:7, Paul explains that God created Adam from the dust and animated him with breath. Christ, however, is thelast Adam, and his resurrection gave him aspiritual and therefore imperishable body (cf. Phil. 3:21). By spiritual body Paul does not mean an immaterial body but a body animated and empowered by the Holy Spirit.

1 Cor. 15:50 Corruptible bodies (flesh and blood) cannot inherit the kingdom. Hence, the need for resurrection.

1 Cor. 15:51–53 mystery. See note on 4:1. Christians who are alive at the time of the resurrection will be transformed so that their bodies become spiritual and immortal like the bodies of those who are resurrected from the dead. (See 1 Thess. 4:13–18.)

1 Cor. 15:54–55 Death is swallowed up. Seev. 26.

1 Cor. 15:56 power of sin is the law. See Rom. 5:20–21; 7:5–25; 8:1–3.

1 Cor. 15:58 Therefore implies a practical application for the doctrine of the resurrection: thework (such as evangelism) that Christians do for the kingdom of God will bring results that last forever. On fruitfulness in the Lord, see John 15:1–5 and Phil. 2:12–13.

Essentially, their words here sum up the passage in relation to the WT teaching.

1 Cor. 15:1–58 The Futility of Faith If the Dead Are Not Raised. Many people in the ancient Greco-Roman world believed that death extinguished life completely or led to a permanent but shadowy and insubstantial existence in the underworld. The concept of a physical, embodied existence after death was known mainly from popular fables and was thought laughable by the educated. Paul deals with the Corinthians' denial of (v. 12) and confusion about (v. 35) the future, bodily resurrection of Christians. These issues were probably raised in their letter to him (7:1).

1 Cor. 15:1–11 The Truthfulness of the Traditions about Christ's Resurrection. Paul first establishes the historical reliability of Jesus' resurrection in order to lay a firm foundation for his argument that it was only the first step in the resurrection of all deceased Christians.

1 Cor. 15:5 Cephas is the Aramaic name for the apostle Peter (Gal. 2:8–9). He and John were the first of the men who followed Jesus to know that his tomb was empty (Luke 24:12; John 20:5–6; cf.Mark 16:7). The twelve includes Judas's replacement, Matthias (see Acts 1:21–23, 26).

1 Cor. 15:6 These witnesses were still alive and therefore able to give firsthand testimony to the truth of this tradition. though some have fallen asleep. Paul is careful not to exaggerate (cf. 7:10, 12, where he carefully distinguishes between his own words and Jesus' words), evidence of the great care that early Christians took in their preservation of the historically accurate details about Jesus.

1 Cor. 15:7 James was the brother of the Lord (Gal. 1:19) and leader of the Jerusalem church (Acts 12:17; 15:13; 21:18; Gal. 2:9, 12). See note on 1 Cor. 9:4–5. all the apostles. The group of apostles is larger than “the Twelve,” including, among others, James and Paul (1 Cor. 15:8). One of the qualifications for apostleship was seeing the risen Lord (9:1).

1 Cor. 15:8 Last of all. Sandwiched between vv. 7 and 9, this suggests that Paul thought there would be no more apostles chosen after him.appeared also to me. Making Paul an apostle (see note on 1:1).

1 Cor. 15:12 raised from the dead. Some of the Corinthians were denying not that Jesus rose from the dead (they “believed” this, v. 11) but that his followers generally would be raised. Paul emphasizes four times in vv. 12–19 that those who deny the physical and bodily resurrection of believers also deny the bodily resurrection of Christ, even if they claim the latter is true.

1 Cor. 15:12–34 Christ's Resurrection and the Resurrection of Believers. Paul next argues that there is a seamless connection between the resurrection of Christ in the recent past and the future resurrection of believers on the final day.

1 Cor. 15:17 still in your sins. The proof that Christ's death was an effective substitutionary sacrifice for sins (v. 3; 11:24–25) lies in Jesus' resurrection from the dead. (See also Rom. 4:25.) If in fact Christ has not been raised, then his death did not pay for sin, and there is no hope for life with God in heaven (see 1 Cor. 15:18–19).

1 Cor. 15:18–19 Although Paul believed that those who died went to be with the Lord immediately after their death and prior to their resurrection (2 Cor. 5:8; Phil. 1:21, 23), he also conceived of the believer's eternal existence as an embodied existence. If there is no such existence, then there is no eternal life.

1 Cor. 15:20 Christ's resurrection, grounded in the truth of eyewitness testimony (vv. 4–8), changes everything. If God raised Christ from the dead, then Christ truly was the firstfruits (Ex. 23:19; Lev. 23:10; Deut. 18:4; Neh. 10:35) or the first of many others who would also be raised from the dead. (See also Rom. 8:29; 1 Cor. 15:23;Col. 1:18.) The term “firstfruits” (Gk. aparche) refers to a first sample of an agricultural crop that indicates the nature and quality of the rest of the crop; therefore, Christ's resurrection body gives a foretaste of what those of believers will be like.

Amen and amen!

Blessings,

Stephen

possible-san

3Mozzies.

Regrettable, that photo is not "In 1914."

According to the Watchtower magazine, the date of that photo is "April 24, 1910."
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/171138/1/Rapture-in-1914

possible

3Mozzies

Regrettable, that photo is not "In 1914."

According to the Watchtower magazine, the date of that photo is "April 24, 1910."

Domo Arigato Gozaimasu Possible-san

We learn something everyday :)

3Mozzies

streets76

I didn't realize the world was so blurry back then.

CT Russell Funeral Picture