Challenge to DJeggnog Regarding his Lies.

by Essan 209 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Quillsky

  Evidently I said "grape".
• 

  Essan

  LOL. Thank you for the bumps people. Hopefully DJ will grace us with his presence soon.

  Or should I say, his "Presence" began long ago, as you can discern from the "sign" of his posts elsewhere claiming that he is qualified to "judge" us and that we are "within his jurisdiction" for such. But what we are interested in is his "Coming" in judicial power to execute his vengeance upon those he has "judged" wicked and unworthy of the ransom, mostly because they won't accept his BS rewriting of history.

  Come on DJ, tell us how Russell could describe a Christ who was present from 1874, but who also "will then be present" as "Earth's new Ruler", after the Tribulation, after Armageddon, after the "Kingdom has come" on earth, in 1914 - yet he was somehow not referring to Christ's "Coming"?

  What was it? a "pre-coming"? LOL

  A quick social call?
• 

  Essan

  A few of DJ's totally false claims:

  "The prevailing belief among Adventists that Jesus' presence had begun in 1874 was believed and being taught in those days until Russell, who had survived the deaths of all but Barbour, came to realize that he, Barbour and the Adventists were in error... Russell made an adjustment in his viewpoint, believing 1914 to be the year of Jesus' invisible presence."

  "I pointed out to him that Russell didn't predict any dates, least of all make the claim that the world would come to an end in 1914, and any statements to this effect would be false... Pastor Russell had from 1876, for almost 40 years, preached 1914 as a marked year, but he never made any predictions as to what would occur at that time."

  "Can you post here a citation from any of the WTS' publications that specifically indicate that Russell predicted "the invisible coming of Christ in 1914"? I'm not sure I've ever read anything that even comes close to such a statement."

  After this evidence of Russell predicting Jesus "Coming" for 1914 had been presented to him, several times, DJ said and continued to say:

  "To my knowledge, the Watchtower has never taught that the invisible coming of Christ began in 1914. Never. ...

  First of all, there is a difference between Jesus' "presence" and Jesus' "coming," and I cannot make this any clear than I have made it."

  This remains his position, despite the evidence.
• 

  Heaven

  "To my knowledge, the Watchtower has never taught that the invisible coming of Christ began in 1914.

  DJEggnog must be a very 'weak' Jehovah's Witness then. The Watchtower's own website states this:

  http://www.watchtower.org/e/bh/appendix_10.htm

  " Revelation 12:6, 14 indicates that three and a half times equal “a thousand two hundred and sixty days.” “Seven times” would therefore last twice as long, or 2,520 days. But the Gentile nations did not stop ‘trampling’ on God’s rulership a mere 2,520 days after Jerusalem’s fall. Evidently, then, this prophecy covers a much longer period of time. On the basis of Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6, which speak of “a day for a year,” the “seven times” would cover 2,520 years.

  The 2,520 years began in October 607 B.C.E., when Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians and the Davidic king was taken off his throne. The period ended in October 1914. At that time, “the appointed times of the nations” ended, and Jesus Christ was installed as God’s heavenly King.*—Psalm 2:1-6; Daniel 7:13, 14. "

  edited to add:

  http://www.watchtower.org/e/lmn/article_10.htm

  "For some 35 years prior to 1914, The Watchtower (now the most widely distributed religious magazine on earth) had been calling attention to 1914 as a year marked in Bible prophecy. These prophecies began to have a remarkable fulfillment in 1914. One of these was Jesus' own prophecy, uttered 1,900 years ago, concerning "the sign" that would appear at the end of the system of things and that would prove that he was invisibly present with kingly power. In answer to his disciples' question about this "sign," he said: "Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress." (Matthew 24:3, 7, 8) In striking fulfillment, the first of the world wars started in 1914, bringing destruction seven times greater than all the 900 wars of the preceding 2,500 years! Pangs of distress have continued ever since. Have you experienced the war destruction, the food shortages, or any of the great earthquakes that have plagued the earth since 1914? If so, you have been an eyewitness of "the sign" of "the time of the end" of this system of things.—Daniel 12:4. "
• 

  quietlyleaving

  DJ eggnog - how can you sleep at night?
• 

  sabastious

  DJ eggnog - how can you sleep at night?

  Same way the GB can, they actually think they are going to be Immortal Kings and Priests at Jehovah's right hand.

  -Sab
• 

  Essan

  Sab said: "Same way the GB can, they actually think they are going to be Immortal Kings and Priests at Jehovah's right hand."

  Actually, your very close to the mark here, IMO. DJ appears to have two problems with me. First, I am one of the people who contribute to exposing his lies. Second, I show no respect the authority he claims to have. He said of me:

  " At 3 John 9, 10, we read about a man named Diotrephes who liked to have first place in the congregation, was highly critical of apostolic authority and didn't receive any of the brothers hospitably or with respect. @Essan reminds me of Diotrephes when he clearly doesn't understand the words that I have been saying here, words that the WTS have for many years consistently never taught. He certainly doesn't respect me"

  Note, my criticism of DJ and his false claims is likened to disrespect for "apostolic authority", among other things.

  Dj feels he has authority among us here, as he explained when reproving another member here:

  "Do you really have faith? Are you the sort that has faith "to the preserving alive of the soul"? Or, are you the kind of person that has just "[shrunk] back to destruction? (Hebrews 10:39) If the former were true, this would be a good thing, but I have judged that the latter is true about you, which is not a good thing" ... "Have you really deluded yourself into believing that you will have life, just based on your assertion that you have faith in Jesus' ransom sacrifice? That's rich!... but you're very mistaken, sir; I am judging you right now. You do know that the holy ones" -- the anointed -- will judge the world, right? But in this world, who do you think is judging you in all things, even "very trivial matters"? Do you not know that men have been appointed as overseers over the flock in the congregations of God, and that I am qualified to judge you? ... you are my brother, a dedicated followers of Christ Jesus, and as such you are within my jurisdiction..."

  Also, despite his repeated false claims and his failure to correct most of them or even respond to the evidence, he demands that I make an apology, despite having proven him wrong! LOL

  "This changes not the fact the WTS hasn't published what he claims.... He's in error and he needs to apologize for making this incredible statement. I'm sure we won't hear one, but @Essan's wrong and he's owes an apology to everyone he's libelled in this regard ."

  Well, at least he recognizes that when someone is wrong they should acknowledge it.

  He's been proven to have made false claims, so let's hear the retraction and apology he says is required in such cases!
• 

  Essan

  Heaven,

  DJ distinguishes between Christ's "Presence" and his "Coming", believing they are different things at different times. DJ first claimed that Russell taught that Jesus "Presence" began in 1914, as JW's do today. This was false. Russell never taught any such thing. He always taught that 1874 marked Jesus "Presence". DJ, was eventually forced to acknowledge this, which he did in round about way, very half-heatedly.

  But then he went on to claim that Russell predicted nothing for 1914 and that he never predicted Jesus "Coming" for 1914, or any other year. As we can see from the quotes in the posts above, this is totally false.

  So, we need to carefully distinguish between when Russell originally proclaimed Christ's "Presence" (1874) and when they predicted his "Coming" (1914) otherwise DJ will use this to divert the debate and avoid admitting his false claims.

  It's confusing, I realize, because the Society has changed it's teachings so many times.
• 

  Ding

  Remember that in Watchtowerland, telling a falsehood is only lying if the recipient is a person who is entitled to be told the truth. People who frequent this website probably don't qualify.

  Djeggnog told me in another thread that he didn't CARE what the WTS taught or predicted before he was born, so I'm not sure why he's discussing this topic at all.

  Then again, I don't understand how a true believe in the WTS and its teaching can be discussing or reading anything on this "apostate" website.

  Unless he has special permission from the GB, his activity here constitutes repeated disfellowshipping offenses, does it not?

  That brings up an interesting question: Can a loyal and faithful JW count his time on this website towards his field service? (It's pretty easy time -- don't have to go to out in bad weather or knock on anyone's door)

  Maybe we should all get together and submit that as a "Question from Readers."
• 

  Essan

  Ding, that is the usual defense a JW losing a debate falls back on when discussing the history of failed predictions and false teachings of the Society and it's leaders: "It doesn't matter. I don't care", despite the fact the whole foundational claim of the JW's as "God's Organization" rests on what actually happened in the 1914-1919 period, and the years leading up to it

  That's what DJeggnog does too. First he makes various false claims about the history of his Organization, then when he senses these claims are being exposed as fraudulent, he switches to saying "Well, I really don't care what they taught back then anyway, it's not relevant", while still lying about JW history.

  If he really didn't care and if it really doesn't matter then what was he going to the trouble of making false claims for, in order to defend the Society?

  He knows just as we know that the Society's history of false prophesy and false teachings matters greatly, as it totally disbars them and their followers from qualifying as the "Faithful and Discreet Slave", from qualifying as the "Wise Virgins" and from from being chosen as "God's Organization" - all of which the Society claims occurred in this early period in their history. That is why the Society lies about it's history now, something else DJ flatly denies despite undeniable proof.

  Indifference to these crucial facts is the behaviour of an insincere and fake Christian.