Jonestown cult and the JWs

by jonathan dough 75 Replies latest jw friends

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  AllTimeJeff

  The Watchtower is continueing to be responsible for many deaths each day. They have already surpassed Jonestown in number of deaths.

  What I find so hypocritical is how they make the rank and file "blood guilty" by not bringing in converts by they are the ones with REAL BLOOD of thousands upon their hands and yet they don't seem to care. The Watchtower is a pure, evil cult,one of the worst of all history. Jonestown pales in comparison to this death cult. Lilly

  Agreed. I hope you don't take my points as an attempt in any way to soften the view of JW's as a cult.

  If you want to talk exclusively of blood transfusions and the lives lost, that is another subject entirely from suggesting that the entire cult is going to be led into a Jonestown scenario.

  I agree with you that the blood doctrine is evil. It is sad that JW's enforce it as they do, while hypocritically allowing most blood fraction medicine as a conscience matter.

  However, JW's have already won the argument on blood. The only way to change that is to publicize any known blood scandals where a child/teen is involved.

  What will change that? In the USA, it has to be the blood doctrine of JW's being exposed as it is enforced on minors. Other then that, nothing is changing.

  But just because this horrible situation exists still doesn't mean that JW's are planning or otherwise equipped for pulling off their own "Jonestown" scenario. We are talking of two different matters.
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  jonathan dough

  The suicide rate is astronomical

  The only thing keeping them from actually killing us all off is that we have "worldly" laws, they HATE non witnesses so much they WISH they could kill us but cannot and that is why they SHUN us AS THOUGH we ARE dead!

  Easy does it. They will accuse you of hysterical hyperbole, but we get your point. And feel your pain.
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  AllTimeJeff

  Lilly

  My apologies if I came across as insensitive.

  I am not arguing what should be done, but what can be done. I am arguing tactics and strategy, not justice.

  Frankly, we don't live in a country that is favorable for the control or regulation of religion. JW's have established their own right of existence to the Supreme Court. Freedom of speech and religion means they aren't going anywhere.

  Recognizing this, what would have to change is more then just publicity, it would have to be the laws of the land.

  You aren't going to bring any substantial change or influence from the outside unless you deal with the self defense mechanisms the WTBTS has put in place, legal or otherwise.

  Now, what do they deserve? To be put of business tomorrow, and for the GB to be put on trial. That'd be great! But it isn't happening. The fact is, cults, even ones more dangerous then JW's are legally allowed to exist in this and other countries that aren't France or Russia. As such, cults will act as cults do, and former followers are powerless to kill them.

  But to slow them down? Expose them? Save those that can be saved? Information, one story, one argument at a time, does way more good then yelling from the mountaintops "cult!"
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  lovelylil2

  Jeff,

  What is happening with the no blood ban is that JW's are in fact committing mass suicide in the name of their religion, just like Jonestown. They are just doing it one at a time instead of collectively that is all. And they are in such a mental stupor due to their beliefs (drunk on wine, if you will) not realizing this is in fact what they ARE doing until it is too late.

  For some reason, I am reminded of the boiling a frog slowly illustration. This is my opinion anyway. Lilly
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  lovelylil2

  Jeff, I agree with your last statments.

  I wonder if the government would react differently to the WT blood ban if they had real numbers to show just how many die each year because of it? Lil
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  AllTimeJeff

  What is happening with the no blood ban is that JW's are in fact committing mass suicide in the name of their religion, just like Jonestown. They are just doing it one at a time instead of collectively that is all. And they are in such a mental stupor due to their beliefs (drunk on wine, if you will) not realizing this is in fact what they ARE doing until it is too late.

  For some reason, I am reminded of the boiling a frog slowly illustration. This is my opinion anyway. Lilly

  Lilly, I don't disagree with the facts you have presented or your view of them. However, as I stated, they have the legal right, long established, to do precisely as they do.

  The problem is, Jonestown was a mass suicide. Not all/most JW's are not going to be faced with a life or death situation where blood transfusions are needed. As such, to present the blood issue in the same context as Jonestown is both a factual and contextual error, imo.

  Again, I am not disagreeing with you. But it simply isn't an effective argument. In fact, I think the GB hopes that the "cult" argument is the one they have to deal with, because it is so easy to dismiss these days. Far better to show the human toll through human stories, and patiently explain what and why the blood doctrine of JW's is non-sensical and a killer.

  Different circumstances, different cult, different tactics needed to expose them.
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  AllTimeJeff

  I wonder if the government would react differently to the WT blood ban if they had real numbers to show just how many die each year because of it? Lil

  Yes, if there were any way to legitimately document them, with the help of doctors, i am sure that would make a difference. And that imo, would be a good tactic to use.
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  jonathan dough

  JW's have established their own right of existence to the Supreme Court. Freedom of speech and religion means they aren't going anywhere.

  Who said anything about disbanding the religion outright? I've gone to great extent, on this board, defending their right to exist as a religion. But the courts can and do step in when it goes too far. Force little girls into marriage with older perverted men? Courts will step in. Polygamy? Not allowed.

  http://144000.110mb.com/607/index.html#B
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  jonathan dough

  But just because this horrible situation exists still doesn't mean that JW's are planning or otherwise equipped for pulling off their own "Jonestown" scenario. We are talking of two different matters.

  Not necessarily. This isn't the only "horrible" situation. You have to look at the bigger picture, the entire spectrum of JW mindset. And nothing has been said to the effect that they are currently "planning" anything, and as for their inability to pull something like this off, well, that's purely speculative. I've seen them feed a lot of people. And right now millions are marching lock-step to the same drum beat. I'm certain they could pull the trigger if they wanted to. And no, I'm not claiming they could net all 7 million.
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  AllTimeJeff

  Who said anything about disbanding the religion outright? I've gone to great extent, on this board, defending their right to exist as a religion. But the courts can and do step in when it goes too far. Force little girls into marriage with older perverted men? Courts will step in. Polygamy? Not allowed.

  Well then, it seems best to try to exploit their weakest dogmas, like blood medicine, and try legally to point out that this is abuse that leads to death unnecessarily.

  My point in saying this was, what they deserve is non-existence. Between that extreme and a Jonestown scenario lies the best, lesser of two evils solution for JW's, and that is to bring attention to their core beliefs and how damaging they really are.