How Should We Deal With "Pirates"?

by minimus 116 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  BurnTheShips

  A growing economy.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Somalia

  This wikipedia article is fascinating.

  A stateless society.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy_in_Somalia

  In the absence of a Somali state and its institutions, the private sector grew "impressively" according to the World Bank in 2003, particularly in the areas of trade, commerce, transport, remittance and infrastructure services and in the primary sectors, notably in livestock, agriculture and fisheries. [ 14 ] In 2007, the United Nations reported that the country's service industry is also thriving. [ 4 ] Economist Peter T. Leeson, in an event study of "the impact of anarchy on Somali development", found that "[t]he data suggest that while the state of this development remains low, on nearly all of 18 key indicators that allow pre- and post-stateless welfare comparisons, Somalis are better off under anarchy than they were under (a central) government." Powell et al. concur that in absolute terms, Somalia’s living standards have improved and compare favorably with many existing African states, but also report that living standards have often improved "relative to other African countries since the collapse of the Somali central government." [ 12

  Somalia has some of the best telecommunications in Africa. [ 16 ] Installation time for a land-line is just three days, while in the neighboring Kenya waiting lists are many years long. [ 11 ] This may seem rather unexpected in a country engaged in civil war; the public telecommunications system was destroyed or dismantled at the outset of the civil war by different factions. Abdullahi Mohammed Hussein of Telecom Somalia explained this by that "the government post and telecoms company used to have a monopoly but after the regime was toppled, we were free to set up our own business", [ 17 ] The Economist cited the telephone industry in anarchic Somalia as "a vivid illustration of the way in which governments…can often be more of a hindrance than a help." [ 18 ] Somalia is linked to the outside world via ship-to-shore communications (INMARSAT) as well as links to overseas satellite operators by private telecommunications operators in major towns. Wireless/mobile communications has also become an economic force in Somalia. Somalia has the cheapest cellular calling rates on the continent, with some companies charging less than a cent per minute. [ 19 ]
• 

  rebel8

  Outlaw, you and I have our own little niche on this forum--making wisecracks on otherwise serious threads.
• 

  Amazing

  BurnTheShips,

  Another reason that I do not believe the article is that it costs a tremendous amount to send a ship through the Mediterranean, through the Suez Canal, down the Red sea to the coast of Somalia just to dump some toxic waste. It would be far cheaper and faster to go out to the North Atlantic where the ocean bed is far deeper, and take a dump.

  If the waste that supposedly washed up onto Somalia shores is nuclear waste ... then false claim red flags really pop up. If the waste is uranium or an isotope thereof, it will be so damn heavy - heavier than lead - that it will sink deep into the ocean floor and a tsunami is not going to just lift it up and send it to shore. If it is low level waste, such as that taken from nuclear plants, such as paper covers, booties, gloves, head covers, masks, tape, etc. it will not cause the illnesses described. As French and American plants have proven, it is far cheaper to safe store the waste using vitrification technology, store the stuff on site as is being done.

  We need more specific data than some unspecified "European" ship dumping something toxic off the coast of Somalia when other methods and locations are far better.

  PS: Nuclear waste does not result in malformed babies ... that is urban myth. Instead, it causes sterility.

  PPS: Wikipedia is not a good source to use. Any college professor worth his salt will prohibit its use as a reference on students papers. Wikipedia is getting better, but it is not peer reviewed by professionals, and has no consistent controls to assure that information supplied is accurate. I am not saying the above Wikipedia quote is wrong, but it is just a note for the future.
• 

  quietlyleaving

  here is an article from the Times Online

  http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article418665.ece

  From The Times March 4, 2005 Somalia's secret dumps of toxic waste washed ashore by tsunami From Jonathan Clayton in Johannesburg THE huge waves which battered northern Somalia after the tsunami in December are believed to have stirred up tonnes of nuclear and toxic waste illegally dumped in the war-racked country during the early 1990s. Apart from killing about 300 people and destroying thousands of homes, the waves broke up rusting barrels and other containers and hazardous waste dumped along the long, remote shoreline, a spokesman for the United Nations Environment Programme (Unep) said. “Initial reports indicate that the tsunami waves broke open containers full of toxic waste and scattered the contents. We are talking about everything from medical waste to chemical waste products,” Nick Nuttal, the Unep spokesman, told The Times. “We know this material is on the land and is now being blown around and possibly carried to villages. What we do not know is the full extent of the problem.” Mr Nuttall said that a UN assessment mission that recently returned from the lawless African country, which has had no government since 1991, reported that several Somalis in the northern areas were ill with diseases consistent with radiation sickness. “We need more information. We need to find out what has been going on there, but there is real cause for concern,” he added. “We now need to urgently send in a multi-agency expert mission, led by Unep, for a full investigation.” An initial UN report says that many people in the areas around the northeastern towns of Hobbio and Benadir, on the Indian Ocean coast, are suffering from far higher than normal cases of respiratory infections, mouth ulcers and bleeding, abdominal haemorrhages and unusual skin infections. “The current situation along the Somali coastline poses a very serious environmental hazard not only in Somalia but also in the eastern Africa sub-region,” the report says. Toxic waste was first dumped in Somalia in the late 1980s, but accelerated sharply during the civil war which followed the 1991 overthrow of the late dictator Mohamed Siad Barre. Local warlords, many of them former ministers in Siad Barre’s last government, received large payments from Swiss and Italian firms for access to their respective fiefdoms. Most of the waste was simply dumped on remote beaches in containers and leaking disposable barrels. Somali sources close to the trade say that the dumped materials included radioactive uranium, lead, cadmium, mercury and industrial, hospital, chemical and various other toxic wastes. In 1992, Unep said that European firms were involved in the trade, but because of the high level of insecurity in the country there were never any accurate assessments of the extent of the problem. In 1997 and 1998, the Italian newspaper Famiglia Cristiana, which jointly investigated the allegations with the Italian branch of Greenpeace, published a series of articles detailing the extent of illegal dumping by a Swiss firm, Achair Partners, and an Italian waste broker, Progresso. The European Green Party followed up the revelations by presenting to the press and the European Parliament in Strasbourg copies of contracts signed by the two companies and representatives of the then “President” — Ali Mahdi Mohamed — to accept 10 million tonnes of toxic waste in exchange for $80 million (then about £60 million). Abdullahi Elmi Mohamed, a Somali academic studying in Sweden, told The Times that this worked out at “approximately $8 per tonne, while in Europe the cost for disposal and treatment of toxic waste material could go up to $1,000 per tonne”. Mr Ali Mahdi, who then controlled north Mogadishu and who worked closely with the UN during its disastrous 1992-95 humanitarian mission to the country, has always refused to discuss the issue even though an Italian parliamentary report subsequently confirmed many of the allegations. </form>
• 

  SixofNine

  two words: exploding parrots
• 

  BurnTheShips

  Give Captain Hook a bad case of jock itch.

  Dead pirate.

  BTS
• 

  Finally-Free

  two words: exploding parrots

  I think my Rocco would take issue with that.

  W
• 

  quietlyleaving

  that tsunami happened for a reason
• 

  The Berean

  Send the looters to Pittsburgh to play with those Pirates. They'll all drown with that sinking ship ...
• 

  Amazing

  Let's see ... some unspecified "European" companies ... clever way to not upset the specific guilty party or company ... sent $80 Million to some Somalie leader for permission to haul a bunch of barrels of bad stuff, from medical to nuclear waste, to Somalia shores (read beaches) to await a tsunami to rush in and break open all those rusted barrels and expose the waste ... and then suddenly every illness nearby is attributed thereto ... never mind that radioactive energy goes right through barrels ... all leading up to some Somalie fishermen to form a voluntary coast guard of various vessels, with heavy arms, to seize an American ship loaded with food and supplies to aid the people of Somalia ... hold a hostage and negotiate for $millions more ... in order to protest said rusted barrels and their toxic contents ... it all make sense now ... or does it?

  How about these are thugs who, when caught, use a negative issue to disguise their wicked greed and willingess to harm innocent humans who were there to do good ... why did they not instead seize one of those many toxic "European" ships and hold those rascals for ransome to pay for the clean up of said toxic waste? Or re-steer said toxic ships back to where they came and dump it on the shores of say France, Italy, or Britain or the unspecified "European" beach? Now that makes a little more sense, eh? Better yet, why not sell the waste to Al Qaeda to make dirty bombs ... such an opportunity to make a double-ended sale ... charge $80 million to dump it ... and then make another $80 million to sell it off. I sure as hell do not buy into the bleeding heart story that these thugs are acting in the best and noble interest of the Somalie people.