by llbh 53 Replies latest jw friends
David, I think I am right behind you following in your footsteps. I see divorce right around the corner.
I couldn't agree with you more. If I would have thought things thru before becoming a Jdubbity without a doubt my relationship was and would have been better and we would not be going thru this situation.
Hi HS
You were one of the posters i had in mind when putting up this thread . You like to challenge people to think things through, which i enjoy.
On a more philosophical level, I have found to be frank, that often the happiest people are those whose lives are free of the tangle of deep 'thinking'.
Up to a point this is true, but when they do have to live in the real world or have someone do it for them, as my soon to be ex wife will find out.
Why do i believe oil prices will fall (how much i don't know though i suspect not alot short term)?
Those countries like China that are creating a false market by thier subsidising of the oil prices. The higher the price goes the more they have to pay in subsidies, there will as is now happening ,come a point where they can or will not bear the cost . Secondly people either can not or will choose not to pay the higher prices, therefore they will moderate thier consumption .Wtiness how everywhere large capacity vehicles are becoming passe'
Demand therefore falls or remains the same. Higher prices have encouraged some countries to increase production . The demand supply curve shifts, prices drop. Just like last time
Regards David
Humans have only recently evolved somewhat rational thinking capabilities. While we are capable of rational thought, most of our decision making and mental processing occurs beneath our conscious perception and is motivated by biological drives that have far deeper evolutionary origins. Try meditation techniques, and you'll realize just how NOT in control of ourselves we really are.
Dave
Try meditation techniques, and you'll realize just how NOT in control of ourselves we really are.
I have not attempted meditation, but i honestly beleive we are more control of our actions than we think that we have..
I have illustrated this in my own personal choices, the result of alot of thinking through the consequences. It was the inaction that caused me the greatest problems
The friend to whom i referred at the top of this thread is very enjoyable company because he does think and have ideas, i find him immensely interesting. People who do not think i find hard work.
Ideas and thinking can be so liberating particularly if they lead to action. Inaction only causes us to ossify become complacent.
Most great theories and inventions came about by people who thought.
Regards David
Its a way of protecting ourselves our heart from being hurt not to see or have to think of the realities that are inevitable, I feel for all
that are at this crossroad of one in and one out of org. It would be very difficult, nothing in common anymore you both grow in different
directions. We all change in our idea's and thoughts and what we want out of life as each year passes, we do not stay the same and
if our partner does not grow as we do then life seems mundane and cracks begin to show. Not thinking is the easy way to just carry
on as is and just hope for the best, maybe it will work and maybe it won't. Sometimes I see this as an awful huge sacrifice to live with.
Just my 2 cents......
hope4others
ps..I got a headache today..
Well I have a couple thoughts on this phenomenon:
1) the average IQ is between 85-100. My nine year old son's is 120. So some people have a greater capacity for thinking than others do-which is a given.
2) I tell my son all the time (and I hope this doesn't offend any churchgoers) that religion is for people who don't want to think, they want someone to tell them what to do. Do people not want to think because of laziness? Low self esteem or lack of confidence? It may be none or it may be all of the above.
Personally, I find it really hard to tolerate people who do not at least try to use their brain. For instance you hear politicians use simple phrases like 'he lied' and they repeat it over and over again 'he lied, he lied, he lied...' and this simple repetition without explanation works on many people because they don't want to think about the details. And JW's? Do I even need to go down that road?
Do people not want to think because of laziness? Low self esteem or lack of confidence? It may be none or it may be all of the above.
It can be any one or a combination of the above i believe.
I do not also think that because a person has a high IQ that he will think more, merely that that they have the capacity to think more deeply.
Thinking requires choice by people to do it. Not thinking about things much is a choice too, it does however narrow one's options.
Has anyone read the books by Edward de Bono on lateral thinking? They present a interesting insight on how we can improve our thinking, in certain ways
David
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2 It is so easy not to do any thinking, we feel comfortable with the actuality.
So what do you think do i have point?
David
Yes I think you have a point. I realized people dont think when I was back in my 30's.
Henry Ford said the hardest thing for people to do is to think.
I came across lots of literature by thinkers back in the 80's that made the point that most people are like zombies walking around in a trance.
I have thought enough. Now I take pills called paxil. They help me not to think and be in step with my zombie brothers.
I did think enough to escape the tower back in 83.
Its painful to think about all the reasons and possiblities of whats going on in the world.
In the USA we have a president who does nothing but lies and has destroyed our economy and caused many young Americans and Iraquis to be slaughtered.
The most likely reason I can think of which is painful is,
so,the USA can keep the oil flowing into china so China can succussfully steal all of the jobs from America and make health care unobtainable for the working man in America.
Half of the above is a reason and the other half is the result.
Whether I'm wrong or not, that is painful to think about.
I would imagine most posters on this board are, de facto, "thinkers" to some degree ~ that's why you are here. However I'm not sure if you will relate to the following or not, which is on a lighter note than some of the above posts.
Non-thinkers may or may not be deep-down happier ~ but they do sometimes seem to have more fun, at least the non-religious ones. They skate across the surface of life without looking into the depths, untroubled by philosophy, ethics, Truth or the nature of reality.
I remember very clearly the moment I discovered that it is not always helpful in all circumstances to be a deep thinker. One afternoon when I was a teenager, I watched a TV wildlife programme showing how birds and animals attract a mate by displaying, preening, calling, dancing, strutting, fighting and drawing attention to themselves, males trying to assert dominance and display strength and prowess and females being choosy and coy but also hoping to get noticed by the males.
That evening I went to a noisy teenage party and when it was in full swing, I found myself analysing the reasons why I and all these other people had chosen to spending our time jumping around, flirting, posturing, hips gyrating to the music wearing fashionable clothes, jewellery, perfume and make-up (it was the '70s ~ some boys wore make up too!), and the scene became high comedy to me when I compared it to the wild-life film and saw the parallels between the two. I suddenly couldn't dance any more. I felt terribly self-conscious and ridiculous and it killed the spontanaity. (BTW I have never taken drugs and was not drunk.)
I thought about how the people in the room believed they were so cool and sophisticated, but in fact they were behaving no differently to animals. I was watching them watching each other, aware of the unspoken sub-text going on behind everything that was happening. I was analyzing the reason why the girls were fiddling with their hair and the boys were standing legs wide apart playing imaginary electric guitars. It seemed all the weirder because my friends were not conscious of or thinking about the motives for their behaiour, they were just following their instincts.
My thinking spoiled my evening, From then on I could not get rid of my self-aware thoughts and do what my friends were doing. I desperately wished I could be like the others and NOT THINK, but just mindlessly enjoy myself. I did not say anything as I felt sure no-one would have a clue what on earth I was on about if I tried to explain, even though my friends were all intelligent. They were just not in thinking mode, not analyzing, but just happily existing in the moment.
It's an example of how I have found conscious thinking can occasionally be a bit of a disadvantage in some aspects of every day life. However when life is hit by problems, it is usually the thinkers who have the advantage.
I'm not sure if anyone reading this will understand what I felt at the time or whether it was just me that was odd and in my own little world!
Footnote: I am pleased to say I have over the years more or less learnt not to be a thinker all the time, so I can now enjoy dancing without caring if I am behaving like a baboon.
I find it odd that you start a topic about "why do most people not think?" and then proceed to say in reply to my first post, "i honestly beleive we are more control of our actions than we think that we have."
I agreed with your initial topic. People do not naturally think in a logical, rational manner because we are biological beings, animals, not computers. Our biology and brains are evolutionary products tuned towards survival in a physical world. We have only relatively recently acquired the ability for highly abstract thought processes, say in the past few hundred thousand years, which have allowed for our highly complex social organization to develop in this present day. Yet, without the necessary degree of socialization, a human child would remain feral and incapable of "thinking" in the abstract way required for survival in a highly ordered human culture. Is the perceived lack of rational thinking ability among "most" people today a symptom of a breakdown in the socialization process due to the disintegration of the extended family, the effects of a pervasive media culture, or the inequities of a global economic system? That is a rhetorical question.
I mentioned meditation. You said you are unfamiliar with it. Meditation techniques are designed to discipline and exercise the thought process by focusing the conscious mind in a specific direction, much as a body builder exercises muscle tissue to increase physical strength. Those who practice meditation compare the undisciplined mind to a wild monkey that jumps from branch to branch in a large tree. Perhaps you believe that you are now thinking better than you have before. I do not disagree with that. However, did my first post cause you mental discomfort by implying that you may not be in as much control as you wish yourself to be? Instead of thinking about what I said in my first post, did your subconscious mind issue a "stop thought" and proceed to disagree with me (see Introduction to Antiprocess) by insisting that "we" are in control of our actions? But, wait. I wasn't necessarily speaking of "actions" per se, but of the very processes that govern conscious thought. If your subconscious mind can issue a "stop thought" without you being consciously aware of it, can you really "think things through"? Food for thought?
Dave
