Can anyone explain why the WTS claims that faithful dubs will be resurrected soon after Armageddon when to the contrary the book of Revelation plainly states that the resurrection of anyone other than the saints will occur after 1000 years?
That is 1000 years after the saints begin ruling on earth which will occur at or shortly before armageddon. Let's remember that rightly or wrongly most dubs do not believe that they are in the class of the saints or anointed as they call them.
Resurrection soon after armageddon or 1000 years after it?
by greendawn 45 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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greendawn
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oompa
I think the Res. is during the 1000k run. What script. are you referring to. At the end of 1000k is when good ol Satan takes another whack at us and if we are good then we get everlasting life finally.
He will mislead Beaches......oompa
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JosephMalik
Can anyone explain why the WTS claims that faithful dubs will be resurrected soon after Armageddon when to the contrary the book of Revelation plainly states that the resurrection of anyone other than the saints will occur after 1000 years?
Greendawn,
Plainly for who? The book describes a series of visions that take place in parallel mostly during the 1000 years. And there were no punctuation marks or explanations to separate these visions. So if you had the paragraphs properly shown then the resurrection also shown after the Nations would simply be a recap to show how the Nations got to be in Rev. 20 in the first place. No one will simply walk in as the WT teaches. The only way for the Nations or anyone else like the holy ones to get in is to be resurrected or changed into an immortal human being. You remember the verse, flesh and blood cannot inherit God's kingdom. This is true for everyone good or bad that makes it. Other accounts in scripture show that the resurrection takes place when Christ returns. They are the root texts that set the doctrine and timing for the resurrection. Basically it all takes place at the beginning during this last day, giving the holy ones time to be priest to them as shown elsewhere. The justification of such Nations will have to wait until after the final test. This justification is also symbolized as resurrection but then it is the Revelation after all. Be careful how such words are used in a vision. Get the doctrine straight outside of the book if you want to understand it when it is finally visualized.
Joseph
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Gopher
The verse in question is Revelation 20:5 -- where it says the rest of the dead did not come to life until the end of the thousand years.
The WTS parses the words "come to life" to mean "having attained perfection", i.e., being spiritually "alive".
So in their view, the gradual coming to perfection occurs all through the 1000 years for those on earth during that time, and then towards the end they spiritually come alive.
That's the Watchtower explanation I remember.
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Brother Apostate
Simple.
Like so many of their doctrines, they twist the Scriptures to suit their agenda.
In reality, only 2 groups will live during the thousand year reign of Christ:
1)- Those martyred (the "saints") in Christ. (The First resurrection)
2)- Those who physically survive the Great Tribulation & Armageddon (and those born to them during the thousand years.).At the end of the thousand years, Satan will be released to gather the wicked together for the final judgement, then, after the battle, all the remaining dead will be resurrected to judgment, the righteous will receive a judgment of everlasting life, and the wicked a judgment of everlasting cutting-off in the lake of fire (the second death.)
BA- So, as usual, they teach docrines of men rather than the truth from God.
Supporting Scriptures ( Revelation 20):
The Thousand Years
1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Satan's Doom
7When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
The Dead Are Judged
11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. -
JosephMalik
2)- Those who physically survive the Great Tribulation & Armageddon (and those born to them during the thousand years.).
BrotherApostate,
Those that survive the Great Tribulation is nearly everyone that ever lived since Adam that qualifies. We also see them symbolized as the Nations. The tribulation started then and is not just the few years just prior to Armageddon as some teach. And there will be no marriage or children born as the WT teaches. No verses for this shown but it can be refuted easily..
Joseph
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greendawn
Indeed the verse in question is Revelation 20:5 where it says that the resurrected saints were to rule for 1000 with the Christ whereas the rest of the dead were not to live until those 1000 years ended.
As Gopher put it (thanks for explaining their position) the dubs try to get round it by claiming that the resurrection at the end of the 1000 years is symbolic not literal. It's a very unlikely explanation. The dubs always play between literal and symbolic explanations as it suits them.
Malik, your post has a lot of depth I must check it out more, the position that the great tribulation really began with Adam's fall is from what source? -
Brother Apostate
Joseph,
Those that survive the Great Tribulation is nearly everyone that ever lived since Adam that qualifies. We also see them symbolized as the Nations. The tribulation started then and is not just the few years just prior to Armageddon as some teach. And there will be no marriage or children born as the WT teaches. No verses for this shown but it can be refuted easily.
Not without twisting Scripture can you come to that conclusion.
First- "God's Kingdom" is the reality that God is King over everything, we enter it by acknowledging that fact (among other things such as accepting the ransom sacrifice, etc). That is why Christ taught that God's kingdom is in our midst, or within us (Lke 17:20-21). This is truth. God's word must be used to set things straight, not teachings of men.
Second- Therefore, it is true that flesh and blood can not, and do not, inherit God's kingdom. Our (Christ's chosen ones) spirit, however, does inherit God's Kingdom, and His Holy Spirit dwells within our fleshly vessels, alongside and within our Spirit.
Third- Revelation 20 makes it clear that ONLY Martyrs will be resurrected at the beginning of the millenial reign. It is obvious from Matthew 24:22 (for but one example) that "If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened" Notice that it is inferred that at least SOME would survive, and it only makes sense when reading the context of Rev 20. Just read the Bible and accept what it says instead of twisting it into what you've been taught. The "rest of the dead" do not come to a resurrection of judgement until after Satan is hurled into the lake of fire. "The Nations" gathered by Satan for Gog and Magog are a portion of those who were born to the survivors of armageddon, for we know that those who are resurrected are like the angels, and do not bear children. There is no other Biblical explanation for where these "nations" come from..
Pray for God's Holy Spirit to fill you before you read the Bible, wipe away all preconceived ideas, and let His truth shine through!
BA-God Bless!
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journey-on
Pray for God's Holy Spirit to fill you before you read it, wipe away all preconceived ideas, and let His truth shine through!
Simply stated but IT WORKS! Good to see you, Brother Apostate. Glad you're back.
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jwfacts
I was reading through on of the books of Rutherford the other day, I think it was Face the Facts from http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/143141/1.ashx and Rutherford used to teach that the resurrection would occur at the end of the 1000 years.
From a purely cynical viewpoint, people often join the WTS after the death of a loved one. It is hardly comforting to be told you will have to wait 1000 years to see them again.