Thinking about disassociating yourself - STOP!...at least for a moment

by rory-ks 46 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • rory-ks
    rory-ks

    (This recent forum post about a letter of disassociation encouraged me to post this new topic. It's been sitting in my drafts folder for a little while, but now is as good a time as any.)

    My suggestion would be, try not to go down the route of disassociation. However long you have been a member of the congregation, disassociation will mean losing friends and acquaintances, and possibly family members, too, depending on how strictly they will adhere to the shunning policy. This is a huge upheaval, and not something you would want to bring upon yourself no matter what the circumstances.

    Granted, it may be that you feel you want to make a statement. You might have a had a bitter experience with the organisation; it may be that you have become shocked by the beliefs and changing policies.

    I think a greater statement can be made by holding off on the decision to disassociate yourself.

    1. There is no scriptural precedent for you cutting off your association. Really, it is a decision that the organisation would like you to make because it absolves them of the responsibility.

    2. Jesus, Stephen, Paul et al remained associated until they were forcibly ejected/rejected. Up until that time they continued trying to inform those they came into contact with.

    3. Shunning/Rejection is a mark of a questionable organisation. Nicodemus had to come to Jesus under cover of darkness; the parents of the man born blind refused to answer the Pharisees questions for fear of being expelled from the synagogue; Jesus warned, “Men will expel you from the synagogue. In fact, the hour is coming when everyone that kills you will imagine he has rendered a sacred service to God.” That sounds familiar because disfellowshipping and shunning is carried out under the false pretense that it is being done for the sake of the sanctification of God’s name, and for the cleanliness of the congregation. The truth is, “But they will do these things because they have not come to know either the Father or me.” (John 16:2, 3)

    4. Disassociation is a policy the organisation has invented. To disassociate oneself is to adhere to their protocol. They instilled the idea that cutting off ties from a former religion was a courageous move to make. Ideas like writing a letter, or boldly telling your minister you are no longer a member of the church were hailed and extolled. We were told not to be afraid because “In case my own father and my own mother did leave me, Even Jehovah himself would take me up.” (Psalm 27:10)

    The reality is nobody ever did leave us - or if they did it was under rare circumstances. The most a minister might say is, oh, I’m sorry to see you go, if there’s anything I can do to help...

    It is a very different story when it comes to leaving the organisation. Someone who writes a letter stands to lose a great deal more - friends, family, and acquaintances which could go back many years. The reason it took courage to publicly remove yourself from the old religion was because on reflection it meant an awkward conversation with a clergyman, and that was it. In the back of your mind, a mountain was being made out of a molehill.

    A letter of disassociation, on the other hand, is an attempt to move a mountain...

    5. A letter of disassociation is often sent in a moment of highly charged emotion, perhaps a desire to be left alone. We often leave out of frustration that the organisation will never change. That may well be true. Angry missives sent to HQ will most certainly be dismissed. Even gentle persuasive letters will be binned at the first sign of even slightly apostate leanings. They simply aren’t interested. A secretary is probably assigned to read all such correspondence, and immediately shreds anything suspicious. They don’t care. They think that any potential apostate threat will eventually be handled at a local level, if it needs to be handled at all.

    It is unlikely to work if you aim for the top. You might even want to think twice about aiming for the bottom. It isn’t fair to erode other people’s faith. They are in a fragile position. They can’t handle having their beliefs questioned, and the organisation’s foundations undermined. Until you have something better to give them, you haven’t a leg to stand on. And when you do have something better to give them, just knowing that better thing will have such an overwhelmingly positive effect on you that you will feel less urgency about trying to save them.

    Don’t say anything that will give them cause to announce your disassociation. Plead the fifth, and don’t bear witness against yourself. If they want to eject you, let them build a case. They will need evidence and witnesses willing to step forward. All that takes time, energy, and nerve - it might be more efficacious to let things remain as they are. Questions like, “Do you visit apostate websites?” can all be met with, “I’m not willing to bear witness against myself. If you know I do, you wouldn’t need to ask.”

    If you ask controversial questions, you are likely to be asked where you acquired your information. This is an attempt to switch the conversation to something they are able to deal with - a personal attack rather than actually answering the question. Simply keep stressing that it is the answer to the question you are interested in, not the source - you aren’t willing to bear witness against yourself. If they want to reach conclusions based on what they hear, that is a decision they will have to have the responsibility of making. If they come back with, “If things need to change Jehovah will see to it,” then urge them not to make a decision which could so radically alter a person’s life based on policies that are so precarious. Appeal to those brothers at a personal, individual level. How many brothers and sisters had their health endangered while for a couple of decades the organisation taught that organ transplants are a form of cannibalism? With one Question From Readers that policy changed. (wt80 3/15 p31), but that one simple policy change couldn’t help those already affected by any decision they made under the original policy.

    If they do build a case, you can remember Jesus, Stephen and Paul who were forcibly ejected from the synagogue. You know how much you love the individual brothers and sisters.

    If any event like this is approaching for you, I would be happy to talk about it - on the forum, with a personal message, or by e-mail.

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Well, for certain people who still have family "in", especially elderly parents, a spouse, underage children; then disassociation might be too drastic a step.

    I do agree - in principle - with your comment that a "letter of disassociation" is playing their game, their way.

    However, for myself, there was great comfort in writing that letter. I'd already disassociated myself by my actions. I'd stopped attending those dreary meetings, I'd begun dating so-called "worldly" men, had begun making a better financial future for myself.

    The letter of disassociation was a mere formality, but it removed all vestiges of fear regarding that idiotic "Great Tribulation" nonsense.

    It would be an effective way of breaking off links to the organization, which would provide needed "closure" for many people.

    Zid the She-Devil

  • Fernando
    Fernando

    Hey rory-ks!

    May I say you make a strong, well reasoned and scriptural case.

    At the same time not everyone's unique circumstances will be the same, and may at times not be amenable to this advice.

    As a 3rd generation born-in with a legacy of dysfunctional families, due to (the Watchtower) religion, I really needed closure.

    I also needed to firmly renounce the spiritually insane Pharisees pretentions of authority over me and my family and our spiritual choices and development. I needed freedom and space within which to grow further without continually looking over my shoulder.

    The result in my has has been the opportunity to go much further and deeper in a much shorter space of time, with no conflict of interest, no divided loyalties and no obfuscation of the facts however inconvenient to the Watchtower and to religion.

    Another pleasing result has been that the Watchtower has surreptitiously reversed their lifelong rejection of the "good news" according to Paul in a recent Watchtower (to cover their rear ends and not due to a love of the truth). This may yet benefit any seekers as they awaken but still only read the Watchtower library (out of misplaced loyalty and trust).

    As impossible as it seems our family came to faith through picking up gospel fragments in the Watchtower library alone!!! Ray Franz left some amazing fragments in the Watchtower library - anyone who reads with an open heart, mind and spirit what he most likely wrote on "legalism" will see the Watchtower monster unravel infront of their eyes.

    Of course I must admit that I was blessed in that my entire immediate family was able to exit intact, and spiritually strong, albeit otherwise severely battered and bruised.

  • rory-ks
    rory-ks

    It goes without saying that those who want to extract themselves from the organisation are free to go ahead and do that. All circumstances are different, like you say.

    For me, in the end, it feels so much better to be outside the organisation than in...whatever that takes.

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    Thanks Rory, I am sure you have helped some to make the decision to simply fade, rather than taking the drastic and final step of DA'ing oneself.

    I was of a mind to DA when I first walked away, I felt it mean't they no longer had power over me, I would not have to look over my shoulder all the time etc

    But for the reasons you outline, I decide to just fade, it took some of their power away by doing that, they cannot forbid any JW to talk with me for instance.

    I am happy with my decision, and although it is possible they may at some point DF me, for voting or donating blood for example, because I do not live my life looking over my shoulder, I openly do those things, and more that they frown upon, but I am prepared for that, it would be the most traumatic and difficult DF'ing the Elders had ever tried if they have a go, I'll make sure of that !

    I hope things are well with you and yours in your situation.

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    It isn’t fair to erode other people’s faith.

    That doesn't count with JWs. They bang on doors for the express purpose of eroding the HH's faith in what ever they believe to get another convert for the Watchtower.

    ... you are likely to be asked where you acquired your information.

    You MUST aquire your information from a source that your target JW professes to trust. They must have NO escape routes.

    Don't bother debating with JWs who are not family members that you want to get out. If you don't have the skills to get the Elder to admit to you that he has been sucked in by a cult, he will tell your family members to start chanting "Get behind me Satan!" every time you get within earshot.

    If they do build a case

    Never ask them anything that you do not know the official answer, or weaselout, for, and an irrefutable responce to. If they ever 'build a case', it is not because they had one, but because you hadn't done your homework. They've got nothing.

  • moshe
    moshe

    Just be a doormat, you'll get to like the rundown feeling--

    Or you can start living the life you were meant to live as a free person, not shackled to the dogmas of the WT org. The more friends and relatives you have in the KH, the less likely it is that any clandestine attempt to extricate them will succeed. I actually had a JW come up and tell me ( in a store ), "I wish I could leave like you did", and he was gone. I'll bet he is still going to the meetings- 20+ years later and hating every day of his life.

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    Interesting analysis. Each of us have different journeys. The fade is working pretty well for me and my circumstances so far. And I've gotten really good at answering questions with questions. And I have plenty of personal stories and 'illustrations'. It's the kind of stuff Jesus did ALL the time. When you look at his exchanges with the Pharisees, he could end a conversation before it could even start.

    I'm pretty effective at avoiding the dubs I dislike, and I have plenty of non-JW stuff to talk about with family and friends. There are enough faders around that congregation that they have a hard time enforcing 'marking' and 'shunning'.

  • clarity
    clarity

    Rory...

    Great post, and done with much concern for the readers.

    It is such an emotional issue, and to make a decision and go off half-cocked, as it were, could be disasterous!

    The way most feel when their whole belief system gets flushed down the toilet .........is to keep flushing!

    What I think you are saying, and I fully agree, is don't pull that flush handle again on a whim! Take the time to calm down.

    That doesn't mean you have to keep your mouth shut for 20 yrs or have to keep dragging your ass to those meetings! (hmm, where did all those potty words come from).

    It may be that no family is involved or only associated for a very short while ...... that is a different story.

    clarity

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    I would have to partially go long with what Rory has stated in regards to just simply fading away out of organization.

    but that suggestion comes with a great amount of variables dependent upon how deep that person was involved with the organization,

    its obvious to see that he himself was quite deep in the organization at one point in time.

    1. There is no scriptural precedent for you cutting off your association.

    Really ? so all the direction and guidance spoken about even by Jesus to avoid and do not associate oneself with false prophets has no bearing,

    which does have scriptural support if to be questioned ? Taken from a dedicated Christian viewpoint .

    This organization has been nothing but apostasy against true Christianity, mostly due to designed doctrines to proliferate its

    own published works as a publishing house.

    I had a good laugh reading from the Elders book ....

    Deliberately spreading teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses: (Acts 21:21, ftn.; 2 John 7, 9, 10)

    The big and obvious problem is that the WTS./JWS do not teach bible truths, there are some to be noted but very little.

    The WTS. has been a over flowing basket of corruption since its beginning over a century ago.

    Superimposing said bible truths which were really commercialized doctrines to appeal toward the public eyes and ears.

    Its certainly a big organization now with its supporting members and its money but that actually exemplifies its own corruption of what it is.

    Every proclamation they state is wholly and biasly stated to support themselves even to the point of out right blatantly lying.

    Power is everything to organizations like this so its not surprising they have tactics to cultivate that power as well to have

    protectionary policies to protect that power of which they have acquired.

    If they take steps upon one of its members (DF, DA) and that results in a dismantling a family apart, they just apathetically don't care

    for its their power they are trying to protect and vilify. Sadly and unfortunately this arrangement by the WTS. has pushed some people to

    go as far as to commit suicide due to the overwhelming amount of personal strife and stress.

    They will twist the whole affair around stating that they have cast judgment upon that individual and are punishing them for their own good.

    For this reason among the many it should be realized that the best possible advise to give anyone is simply not to get involved with religious cults like this

    in the first place, in spite of the alluring tactics they make openly toward the public.

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