You make a very good case, Finkelstein. I think I got myself into a perpetual Society-proven scripturally-backed time-loop vortex of circular reasoning.
Thinking about disassociating yourself - STOP!...at least for a moment
by rory-ks 46 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Finkelstein
We're all human Rory , susceptible to be lured into things sometimes, not completely and fully realizing all of the implications for are selfs
as well toward others.
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Bubblegum Apotheosis
@rory-ks That was beautiful! There is no good reason to allow them to label you, more good is accomplished by covert methods than putting a big "Apostate" T-shirt on. The Society has no use for under performing dubs who don't meet their month hour target. How quick the friends would say "Oh, that makes sense, he is disassociating himself, I am afraid to go near him!" vs talking in private about subjects like "The Generation 11.00"... I enjoyed your reasoning and logical analysis for anyone not ready to go Rogue! @ Moshe "Just be a doormat, you'll get to like the rundown feeling- Rory made a sound argument for dubs not sure of their present situation. His approach has a more tactical method, than allowing the Organization to tell friends and family members "Their mentally diseased apostates, hate them!"
Or you can start living the life you were meant to live as a free person, not shackled to the dogmas of the WT org. The more friends and relatives you have in the KH, the less likely it is that any clandestine attempt to extricate them will succeed. I actually had a JW come up and tell me ( in a store ), "I wish I could leave like you did", and he was gone. I'll bet he is still going to the meetings- 20+ years later and hating every day of his life.
Rory has provided a nice outline how to transition out of the Organization on the publishers own terms. "having a whacko JW come up to me, who attends meetings (but hate thems) out of spite or fear would not validate any thinking person's life. "Wow, I was complimented by a nut, I feel much better about my life now!"
Rory is not talking to a community who attends meetings ferverently, he is talking to those who don't attend, rarely attend meetings. If a man or woman is happy without being labled an Apostate, should they hand over their freedom to a entity who will label them evil?
Depressed and anxious individuals would be better off fading away, what worked for you and others who broke out, have brought disaster to others on the fringe of the Organization. Socially ackward members of society who were promised a spiritual paradise, who will we send these people to? The old saying "You Break, You Fix It", Rory's method prevents unnecessary anxiety and ill will, other fading members have contracts with Dubs, or enjoy their physical family (who are still JWs) interaction.
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moshe
In over 7 years here I have yet to see any persuasive evidence that the slo-oow fade is actually better than just leaving outright- many of the reasons I have seen over the years for fading can be summed up as "pain avoidance". I don't like going to the dentist, but I know that avoiding today's pain won't help me in the long run. If more people left the KH by taking the high road of "public denunciation" of the WT org, it would be better for all. Let's say that 20% of the active JWs have quit attending meetings at the KH in the last 10-15 years. The lack of very many reports of those exiting having taken a public stand, probably means that most have taken the back door. If these 20% had been vocal about why they were quitting and kept it up over the years the brothers would have to take notice- Bro-so and so left because of this, Sister so and so left because of that,i.e, the constant barrage of WT expose' arguments would take it's toll on the brothers. Being a wimpy fader means the brothers can always pretend those who left did so because of bad worldly motives or secret immortality. There is no cloud of "WT error" floating in front of JWs, because few are are bold enough to say anything negative about "mother" when they leave.
The bro who told me he wanted to leave, was the adult 30 year old son of an elder- a 3 generation expanded JW family and he was working in the family business- his uncles were all elders- get the point? He was trapped in a net of his own making- he could find a new employer (construction), but that involves risk, he could decide he didn't want to be a ministerial servant, but that would bring frowns from family- he just wasn't willing to take any independent step away from his JW cocoon of virtual security.
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Black Sheep
Amazing took his family out with him by getting them thinking, while he was still a JW in good standing.
That is a far more effective way to leave, and to keep your family, than fading or going out in a blaze of glory.
Nearly all of us ID ourselves as apostate by throwing our toys out of the cot when we first work out we've been scammed. That is what the WT wants us to do. Play by their rules, and they win.
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mrquik
My daughter did the fade. It's been 12 yrs. She still is welcome by Witnesses. No one has pressured her about her relationship in all that time. Married a great guy. (Non Witness) Enjoys all the holidays with my wife & I. After a while, nobody in the cult gives a crap. This might work for some of you.
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flipper
RORY-KS- You make some very interesting and valid points. I agree with different folks here that we all have different situations determining our decisions to DA or not to DA. I still have JW family in and have been inactive and haven't attended meetings in over 8 years. I look at myself as having DAed myself mentally , yet I don't do it officially as I don't recognize the WT society's authority over me to make that determination for me. I have JW parents in their 80's I still communicate with, yet I DO speak my mind to them when I need to stand up against injustices committed by my elder dad or the organization. ( See my thread this past December of my dad preventing my mom from visiting us due to my inactive niece living near us . ) I hold off DAing myself so I can eventually assist one or both of my adult JW daughters to exit the JW cult. If I DAed myself, I would not have that opportunity. So those are some reasons I don't DA myself. This organization had too much power over my decisions for 44 years, I'm not going to allow them to force me into decisions I don't want to make now
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moshe
Well like I say, the WT still has the power to force fading JWs to, KEEP THEIR MOUTH SHUT about "mother". Fear of god's true organization, hahah, lives on in the hearts of the timid.
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Scott77
I respect everyone's opinion. However, for me, DA was the best policy for a peaceful closure. Iam glad to have done that. The Watchtower is a legalistic organisation requiring new converts to write to their former churches stating that they are nolonger members. Now, its the same way to write to the Watchtower playing the same game to them. You can still still build a new relationship, start a new family etc right from scratch. I deeply appreciate JWs who are undercover for us. They are our ears and eyes.
Scott77
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Violia
I'd not opt for da. It is their rules and I see no reason to accommodate them just so they can put me in a category.
However, even some churches ask you to resign if you change religions.