I called the KH- "the Memorial is tomorrow night, right?

by moshe 90 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • moshe
    moshe

    I called just before noon today- an elder promptly answered the phone. I told him, " Uh, Memorial is tomorrow night, right?"

    "Oh, NO, it's tonight" he quickly corrected me.

    "well how can that be, Passover starts tomorrow night- you're a day early", I countered

    " I don't know where you got that, but the Memorial is definitely tonight", said the elder

    "Are you telling me the Jews don't know when their own Passover is- That's silly"

    We follow the Bible- it's Nissan 14 tonight, after sundown"

    "But , Passover starts at sundown on Nissan 15, the Jews know that- why don't you?"

    Mr elder is getting testy now- "look the memorial is tonight and I don't care what the Jews are doing"

    Me- Well the Bible says Jesus instituted the new covenant right after the Passover meal was finished, so are you saying the WT is right and the Bible is wrong? Passover starts tomorrow night, after sundown!"-- long pause---

    JW- "Just who is this? What religion are you anyway!" trying to change the subject, after losing this one

    me-"what does that matter, I just want to keep you from making a mistake on the date, for tomorrow night when Jesus comes to inspect the KH's, they will all be empty- woe to any JW who is sitting at home.

    "I have to go, this conversation is over", demanded the elder

    except, I kept him on the line for another couple minutes debating whether Judas partook of the New Covenant bread with Jesus.

    it went like this:

    JW- did not

    Moshe, did too, read Luke and John

    JW, did not, the WT teaches he left before-

    Moshe- did, too, read Luke and John.

    JW, did not, etc, etc.

    Finally he got off , but he never agreed to read Luke and John ( I asked him to look them up on the phone), but I'll bet he does- what do you think?

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    Screenshots or it didn't happen.

    -Sab

  • lovelylil
    lovelylil

    Not that it matters on the date that much anyway. But if Moshe did call, I am glad he gave them a hard time about it, because they are always insisting they have the only truth and only THEY observe the memorial of Christ's death the proper way.

    Just for the heck of it;

    Passover in 2011 will start on Tuesday, the 19th of April and will continue for 7 days until Monday, the 25th of April.

    Note that in the Jewish calander, a holiday begins on the sunset of the previous day, so observing Jews will celebrate Passover on the sunset of Monday, the 18th of April.

    Here is a link to the Jewish Calender http://www.chabad.org/calendar/view/day.asp?tdate=4/18/2011

    Moshe, I wish you had recorded that phone conversation.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW
    Mr elder is getting testy now- "look the memorial is tonight and I don't care what the Jews are doing"

    "I don`t care what the Jews are doing"..

    ????????????????????

    WTF!!!!!!??..

    I`m Dieing Laughing here Moshe..LOL!!..

    That is 2-F*cking Funny..Boardering on 3-F*cking Funny!!!

    ..................... ...OUTLAW

  • moshe
    moshe
    Moshe, I wish you had recorded that phone conversation.

    I still remember the crybabies who got upset when I took a picture of the 3 JWs I went out in FS with on Thanksgiving day last year.

    Mr Elder only wanted to do what the WT told him was right, even when it contradicted his Bible. If that isn't a cult, then what is?

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Moshe..

    You`ve done some of the Funniest Stuff I have read on JWN..

    Going out in the FS was Hillarious..

    Don`t ever stop being you..Cry babys,will always cry..

    ..................... ...OUTLAW

  • moshe
    moshe

    Thanks for the support OutLaw- it's a thankless job making JWs look like idiots.

    - I hope a lot of people call up the KH tonight and ask why they got their Memorial dates wrong.

  • boyzone
    boyzone

    Have they? Oh Lordy Lordy!!!

  • cantleave
  • Mary
    Mary
    look the memorial is tonight and I don't care what the Jews are doing"

    Ya.....I mean why on earth would the Jews know their own history? What a bunch of idiots.....Actually, here's the uh 'official' explanation as to why God's Chosen Ones knows the history of God's (Previous) Chosen Ones better than the Previous Chosen Ones themselves:

    "...He thereafter outlined the Lord's Evening Meal, which his followers were to keep as a memorial of his death. (Luke 22:19, 20) The Passover was held once a year. Hence, it is reasonable that the Lord's Evening Meal be kept annually. When? Logically, in the spring at Passover time. That would mean when Nisan 14 (Jewish calendar) fell, rather than always holding to Friday because that was the weekday on which Jesus died.

    So Nisan 14 would be the date Paul had in mind when he wrote: "As often as you eat this loaf and drink this cup, you keep proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he arrives." (1 Corinthians 11:26) For the next two centuries, many Christians held to Nisan 14, they being known as Quartodecimans, from the Latin for "14th." M'Clintock and Strong report: "The churches of Asia Minor celebrated the death of the Lord on the day corresponding to the 14th of the month Nisan, on which day, according to the opinion of the whole ancient Church, the crucifixion took place." Today, Jehovah's Witnesses keep the Lord's Evening Meal annually on the date corresponding to Nisan 14. Some have noted, though, that this may differ from the date when Jews hold their Passover. Why?

    The Hebrew day ran from sunset (about six o'clock) to the next sunset. God commanded that the Passover lamb be killed on Nisan 14 "between the two evenings." (Exodus 12:6) When would that be? Modern Jews cling to the rabbinical view that the lamb was to be slaughtered near the end of Nisan 14, between the time when the sun began to descend (about three o'clock) and the actual sunset. As a result, they hold their Seder after sundown, when Nisan 15 has begun.-Mark 1:32.

    We have good reason, however, to understand the expression differently. Deuteronomy 16:6 clearly told the Israelites to "slaughter the passover sacrifice, in the evening, at sundown." (Jewish Tanakh version) This indicates that "between the two evenings" referred to the twilight period, from sunset (which begins Nisan 14) to actual darkness. The ancient Karaite Jews understood it this way, as do Samaritans down to today. Our accepting that the Passover lamb was sacrificed and eaten "at its appointed time" on Nisan 14, not on Nisan 15, is one reason why our Memorial date sometimes differs from the Jewish date.-Numbers 9:2-5.

    Another reason why our date may differ from that of the Jews is that they employ a predetermined calendar, which system was not fixed until the fourth century C.E. Using this, they can set dates for Nisan 1 or for festivals decades or centuries beforehand. Moreover, the ancient lunar calendar needed to have a 13th month added occasionally so that the calendar would synchronize with the seasons. The current Jewish calendar adds this month at fixed points; in a 19-year cycle, it is added to years 3, 6, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 19.

    However, Emil Schürer says that "at the time of Jesus [the Jews] still had no fixed calendar, but on the basis of purely empirical observation, began each new month with the appearance of the new moon, and similarly on the basis of observation" added a month as needed. "If . . . it was noticed towards the end of the year that Passover would fall before the vernal equinox [about March 21], the intercalation of a month before Nisan was decreed." (The History of the Jewish People in the Age of Jesus Christ, Volume 1) The extra month thus comes in naturally, not being added arbitrarily.

    The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses establishes the date for the Lord's Evening Meal in line with the ancient method. Nisan 1 is determined by when the new moon nearest the spring equinox can likely be observed at sunset in Jerusalem. Counting 14 days from that brings one to Nisan 14, which usually corresponds to the day of the full moon. (See The Watchtower of June 15, 1977, pages 383-4.)

    This date corresponds to Nisan 14, which was when Jesus held the last valid Passover. However, celebrating the Memorial brings into focus salvation beyond what the Jewish Seder commemorates. All of us need to understand what takes place during the Lord's Evening Meal, what it means, and how our salvation is involved."------February 15, 1990 Watchtower, pars. 19-26 From Seder to Salvation

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit