I called the KH- "the Memorial is tomorrow night, right? (page 6)

FadingAway

Nisan 15 overlaps with Nisan 14...enuff said.

drewcoul

Moshe,

Since I live in Indiana too, I think I would like to go out in service with you. Maybe we could go to a WT Study together too and visit a congregation midway between you and I.

I'm sure it would be an encouraging and spiritually uplifting experience for both of us.

I'm somwhat surprised DJEGG hasn't chimed in on whether Judas was present to partake of the emblems or if he left before.

wannabefree

Actually, the lamb was slaughtered on Nisan 14th and the actual Passover was eaten after sundown, on the 15th.

I am trying to understand this, there seems to be confusion as to when this was actually celebrated.

Did the day begin at the first evening or the second evening? If the passover lamb was to be slaughtered between the two evenings and the day began at the first evening, then Nissan 14 would run from the first evening until the following first evening and this seems to make sense.

If the new day begins at the second evening, it doesn't make sense because then the Passover lamb was slaughtered at the end of Nisan 14 and the Passover would have been celebrated on into Nisan 15. This is a problem according to Leviticus 23.

(Leviticus 23:4-6) 4 "‘These are the seasonal festivals of Jehovah, holy conventions, which YOU should proclaim at their appointed times: 5 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, between the two evenings is the passover to Jehovah. 6 "‘And on the fifteenth day of this month is the festival of unfermented cakes to Jehovah.

Perhaps I am just confused here.

Mad Sweeney

Alright, don't everybody gang up on Eggie. He is a brother in Christ. Belittling someone because they don't believe exactly the same thing is exactly why most of us are here.

I have to disagree with this. Eggie is an Internet troll, nothing more. In real life he might be a person but we have no way of knowing what sort, nor does it matter while online. Online, he is a troll; that is his character, his schtick, and he deserves to be treated with the online contempt that all trolls deserve.

snowbird

Please have a look at this link, Wanna.

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=First-Passover

I think the info presented there will help clear up your confusion.

Syl

WontLeave

Did the day begin at the first evening or the second evening?

From what I've gathered, "between the two evenings" means from when the sun first begins its descent to when it sets. Basically, it's between noon and sundown. At first, I was under the impression it meant from one evening to the next: 24 hours. Exodus 29 helps to clear this up, because it's talking about offering 2 sacrifices a day: One early in the day and one late in the day.

So, the Passover was slaughtered in the afternoon and eaten that night. Since the Jewish day ends at sundown, the slaughtering would be very late on Nisan 14th and the Passover meal would be early on Nisan 15th.

The Jewish "hours" were 12 time periods between dawn and sundown, so weren't set like the hours we use now. The "1st hour" began when the sun rose and the "12th hour" ended when the sun set.

Online, he is a troll

Internet troll is part of the process for some. I saw through the idolatry very early and have a distinct disdain for stupidity, so I never really cared much for Witnesses. So, when I started exercising my Christian freedom and being attacked for it, I was never sad or torn as to whether I was doing the right thing. My JW relationships never manipulated me into doing things I knew were false. I have no fear of men. My point is, I get off pretty easy.

Some have lots of family and friends they love very much, in the organization. Some have worshiped the Society so long, it's difficult to come to grips with having been so totally fooled. For many JWs, to admit the whole power structure is unchristian and unscriptural means admitting they've been worshiping a false god all their lives while pounding on people's doors and trying to get them to do it, too. Some have actually succeeded at this and now have someone else's idolatry to deal with.

I don't have this problem, because my entire relationship with the Society has been cold and distant. I didn't realize the god complex of the Governing Body when I first came in, so focused my ministry on the Bible. I was actually mortified by the quality of JWs' ministry, when I really started to throw myself into it. I hated their obsession with man-made literature and avoidance of Scripture. It caught me completely by surprise and I brought it up often, making it clear I would not preach the Watchtower, but there were some publications I felt were useful and would use them. The idea that I filtered "the faithful slave's" message is heresy to most JWs. This idolatrous attitude toward men and their writings further polarized my relationship with the Witnesses and we both looked at each other as apostate.

If, for decades, I had been one of the people I couldn't stand, then had an epiphany and realized it was all a sham, my whole world would have fallen apart. I saw how much faith and authority was invested in the old men in NY by these people and can understand how lost and betrayed some would feel if they ever made the connections I had quite quickly and easily. The fact that Eggie is here, means he's not a "good Witness", because he's not being 100% obedient to the Watchtower. I believe his ill-placed faith may be in its final throes of death and he's having trouble letting go, because he might feel it's his whole life and the transition is just too much for him to bear. His world may be falling apart around him and he's in "fight or flight" mode. Ganging up on him (or Spade) just causes him to wrap himself in the Watchtower to defend himself then come back swinging Watchtower doctrine in an attempt to retain what he sees as everything he's ever stood for.

snowbird

At first, I was under the impression it meant from one evening to the next: 24 hours.

Once, I thought the same.

As I found out in my research, slaughtering of the lambs began around 3 pm on Nisan 14 if Passover preceded a Sabbath, which was then called a High Sabbath.

The Gospel of John shows this to be the case in the year Jesus of Nazareth was put to death.

Also, it was around 3 pm that Jesus of Nazareth, the Lamb of God, died.

"Let God be true ... "

Syl

moshe

Eggie is here, means he's not a "good Witness"

-the day of your epiphany just happens (even the strong will fall) and there is nothing you can do to go back to the La-La-La days of being a happily controlled JW.

garyneal

The inability of JWs to explain away their mistake is an embarrassment to them, but they are too stubborn to admit they made a mistake. Let's face the facts, if the F&DS was unable to realize their major error here and fix the memorial date decades ago, then what other doctrinal errors have they missed?

I concur. I was thinking about this last night as we were returning from the memorial *yawn*. Truth is, the witnesses appear to make sure to such painstaking details the 'truth' about everything and present this to their rank and file. To get something like this wrong in glaring. Even glaring still is the fact that simple facts like this can be checked simply by 'going to any encyclopedia.'

They're quick to point this out to Christians concerning Christmas Day, by pointing out those errors they make themselves appear to be well researched and the closest followers of the 'truth' (facts) as possible. Yet, here we have this and other errors standing out for those who are willing to look. But as long as they keep their blinders on, they will continue to think that they have the one true religion.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

wannabefree

Actually, Jesus died late in the day on Passover, the 15th.

If this is true, Jesus didn't die on Passover day, he died on the day of Festival of Unfermented Cakes.

So JW's do celebrate the Memorial on the correct day, Nisan 14, just the incorrect time of the day, the beginning instead of towards the latter part.

If I understand this correctly, Passover celebration was only the time between the two evenings, then Passover was during the time of sun descent Nisan 14 to the moment before Nisan 15 began at sundown.

So wouldn't the question really be whether or not Jesus instituted the "Lord's Evening Meal" as a replacement of the Passover meal or was it instituted following the meal, after sundown on Nisan 15, the beginning of the Festival of Unfermented Cakes?

I called the KH- "the Memorial is tomorrow night, right?

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