@Mary:
OK eggnog: I'll all dolled up and ready for you to pick me up for our hot date tonight! What time should we get to the Memorial in order to get some good seats??!
Jehovah is responsible for the genes that caused some very physically attractive women to be born on this earth, and I've personally seen and even met many of them during my relatively short life span, one of them being my wife, but I've never held someone being physically attractive against anyone, so if you are able to 'doll up' and everything, and you don't mind going with my wife and I to the Memorial, I'll come by and pick up you up so that you and she might be able to get a seat. (I don't know about "good seats" since I always stand at these things.)
If it happens that you have been disfellowshipped, you can talk to me about all of the goings-on (in the event you've forgotten something or never knew), but no socializing. Got it! Just be ready to go wearing appropriate attire at 6:30 pm and I'll pick you up in my car. I'll let you play any of the 8,500+ songs currently in my iPod that you want, but if you're not ready when I get to your home, I'm telling you now that you're going to be left right there at home as I head on to the Kingdom Hall. I'm warning you that I don't care to hear you opine on what's wrong with Jehovah's organization. If you do that, I'm giving you a $20 bill to defray the cost of a taxi, and let my wife throw you out of my car. Understood? <g>
BTW, this is the internet, so how will I recognize you? Will you be wearing a dress or a suit and tie? Seems like a good question to ask with so many pretenders and personas making a home here on the 'net.
@djeggnog wrote:
While you believe the Jews ought to know when the Passover, which is a one of the "high" days that they observe each year -- and they do! -- Jewish tradition dictates when they observe the Passover, and this year, in 2011, they will wait until sundown on Monday, Nisan 14 -- which would be Tuesday, Nisan 15 -- to begin their observance of it. In contrast, the Memorial of Christ's death is being observed by Jehovah's Witnesses this year at sundown on Sunday, Nisan 14.
@WontLeave:
Okay, usually I let your stuff go by, because you're a GB robot and I figure you're about as easy to get out of your rut as dislodging the Pope from Catholicism. But this is so false, it's ridiculous. Actually, the Bible dictates when Passover is observed....
The lamb is slaughtered on the 14th day of the month (originally "Aviv", but now known as "Nisan"). Since the lamb was eaten at night, that would be the next Jewish day, which changes at sundown. This puts us at Nisan 15th.
I think you may have meant to write "Abib."
Now on the first day of unfermented cakes, when they customarily sacrificed the passover [victim], his disciples said to him: "Where do you want us to go and prepare for you to eat the passover? - Mark 14:12
I think we can all agree this is Nisan 14th. This is the day God told Israel to slaughter the passover lamb.
No, we cannot all agree -- at least I cannot agree -- that the first day of unfermented cakes occurred on Nisan 14. This seven-day festival begins on the day following the Passover, which would be Nisan 15, not Nisan 14. However, the reason Mark 14:12 refers to this particular day as being "the first day of unfermented cakes" is because this passover was lumped with being the first day of the festival of unfermented cakes, as it was "Preparation" for the festival of unfermented cakes, which is a sabbath (Matthew 26:17; Luke 22:7). Consequently, when these two "great" or "high" days (John 19:31, KJV) came together like this, the Jews would refer to the two days as the "passover" as does Mark at Mark 14;12.
A little "housekeeping" here: Earlier in my initial post to this thread, I wrote the following:
"Put another way, Jesus celebrated his last Passover with his apostles on Thursday evening, Nisan 14, 33 AD, and it was "about the ninth hour" (Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34; Luke 23:44) -- here "ninth hour" means that it was about 3:00 pm on Friday afternoon of Nisan 14, 33 AD -- that Jesus died. Nisan 14, 33 AD, corresponds to Thursday/Friday, April 2/3, 33 AD, Julian, and March 31/April 1, 33 AD, Gregorian. Nisan 14, 5771 A.M., or Nisan 14, 2011, corresponds to Thursday/Friday, April 4/5, 2011, Julian, and April 17/18, 2011, Gregorian."
What I had intended to write is what you see here in bold:
"Put another way, Jesus celebrated his last Passover with his apostles on Thursday evening, Nisan 14, 33 AD, and it was "about the ninth hour" (Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34; Luke 23:44) -- here "ninth hour" means that it was about 3:00 pm on Friday afternoon of Nisan 14, 33 AD -- that Jesus died. Nisan 14, 33 AD, corresponds to Thursday/Friday, April 2/3, 33 AD, Julian, and March 31/April 1, 33 AD, Gregorian. Nisan 14, 5771 A.M., or Nisan 14, 2011, corresponds to Sunday/Monday, April 4/5, 2011, Julian, and April 17/18, 2011, Gregorian."
This year, Nisan 14, 5771 A.M., on the Jewish calendar spans Sunday and Monday, which Passover begins tonight, Sunday, April 17, 2011, at sundown, and ends tomorrow, Monday, April 18, 2011, at sundown. This is what is meant above by "April 17/18, 2011, Gregorian."
BTW, the first day of unfermented cakes was also a great sabbath -- a double sabbath -- because it happened to fall on the same day as the weekly sabbath, which began on the same day after Jesus died, in the evening on the seventh day when Nisan 14, the sixth day, ended and Nisan 15 began, and the "evening light" of this particular "sabbath" is to what Luke refers in his gospel at Luke 23:54 as "approaching."
After evening had fallen he came with the twelve. - Mark 14:17
This would be the next Jewish day, because it was now evening; Nisan 15 - Passover. Everybody gets it except the Governing Body.
Actually, no. What Mark 14:17 is referring to is the Passover, which was celebrated on Nisan 14, and not on Nisan 15. Recall that Jesus died somewhere around "the ninth hour" (Matthew 27:46) on Nisan 14, so since Mark 14:17 says it was "evening," obviously refers to the evening of Nisan 14 since a Jewish day ran from sundown to sundown.
Don't even start with the "between the two evenings" being from sundown to night, either. That is a load of crap and everybody knows it. If we're going to allow people to tell us what God meant to say, then we might as well all believe in Hellfire, Trinity, and Transubstantiation just because someone told us to.
You seem to have a disdain for truth, @WontLeave, so I should just leave you alone, for anyone that says what you just said here is someone that cares nothing about facts.
By the way, huge Watchtower articles doesn't make them right. It just makes them bombastic.
@moshe:
Mr Eggnog, your convoluted explanation seems to have fallen on deaf ears- maybe you need to gussy it up a little more, with some WT antitypes, greater Moses and grand jubilee mumbo jumbo.
There is hardly anyone involved in this thread besides @TD, with whom I agree, btw -- maybe you noticed, maybe you didn't! -- that know anything at all about the Hebrew calendar or this particular festivals mentioned in the gospels. (Mark 14:12; Matthew 26:17; Luke 22:7)
You would think this snafu on memorial dates would be a wake-up call for JWs lurking here, to see that the GB has committed a monumental blunder in picking the wrong day for the Memorial. I can think of more mistakes with dates the WT has done, too.
What "snafu"? I see no such snafu regarding tonight's memorial observance. What is more, you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about here.
@djeggnog wrote (to @moshe):
I suspect that you aren't knowledgeable about the Hebrew calendar or about this particular "high" day on it, but you do not need to be a Bible scholar, as I am, to learn about the Jewish calendar. In lieu of your taking a course in a community college somewhere, perhaps you could benefit yourself by just going to a public library and doing a bit of reading up on this subject.
@snowbird wrote:
I suggest you read the information at the link I posted above, also written by a Bible scholar.
Iron sharpening iron, you know?
You're not iron and if the information to which your link points says pretty much what you are saying here, then there is no need on my part to read what some of Bible scholar wrote. You're mistaken and so I would imagine this scholar is mistaken as well.
@djeggnog
