Questioning Armageddon. How can wife hang onto the Bible? (If she wants to)

by Open mind 58 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Open mind
    Open mind

    Jehovah wiping out 99.99% of humanity, babies included, is a "problem" or "question" that I think can be very powerful to use with JW family. Especially when presented from a "I just really have a problem with this idea at a gut level" standpoint.

    But I haven't used it with my wife (yet) because I see it as a slippery slope that leads to "Jesus believed the whole flood story" so I guess we need to throw out the whole Bible. (Which, BTW, is the very slope I have gone down.) I'm worried about it being too much at once.

    Is there a middle ground that will allow her to at least hold on to belief in the Bible for a while? I'm having trouble remembering how I got here myself. I'm pretty sure Farkel's blasting of how ruthless and bloodthirsty "Bible God" is got me here in one fast, slippery slide.

    All thoughts appreciated.

    Open Mind

  • Terry
    Terry

    First of all.....

    When you walk into a movie theatre you enter a different world where different rules apply. Watching a horror movie can scare you, but, if you are lucid and rationale you KNOW what you are seeing is only make-believe. The thrill is vicarious and not threatening.

    When you walk into Disneyland you expect to see cartoon characters walking around which, in everyday life, aren't around.

    When you open the pages of the Bible you've entered a different world too. You have to suspend disbelief and totally buy-in to what you are about meet head on. Among these characters and incidents are:

    Talking animals, invisible people, magic fruit, kingdoms in the clouds, evil spirits, miracles and predictions about horrible events.

    Unfortunately, you are not allowed to have the same reserve of intelligent reality when confronting the Bible as you do watching a movie or visiting Goofy on Main Street in Disneyland.

    The Bible is a world you can't escape from once you suspend disbelief and it becomes supra-reality. Faith, after all, tells us we don't need evidence and that the Bible is more real than reality itself!

    So, you are pretty much going to suffer the pangs of distress greater than watching Freddy or Jason or Saw II and not be able to munch popcorn or leave the theatre and go home for a good night's rest.

    Primitive, stone age people came up with their own stories to explain why things Are the way they seemed to be. Thousands of years ago this was the best they could do to explain reality.

    Today we don't bleed sick people or put leeches on them to suck out the bad humours. We don't read the bumps on people's heads or scan tea leaves to peer into the future unless we are superstitious and self-deceiving to the point of ignoring all that science has to offer.

    You enter the world of your own choosing. In for a penny; in for a pound. Once you enter you have pay your dues.

    Better to think it over before you pay the price of the ticket.

  • bob1999
    bob1999

    I am not defending the WTS. I think they are dead wrong on many things.

    But, Romans 9:19 "who are you, a man, to answer back to God?" (please read the whole chapter)

    Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth. Without God there would be no life at all.

    Romans 9:14 "What shall we say then? Is there in-justice on God's part? By no means. 15 For he said to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.""

    God is sovereign. If you don't think so you have not been regenerated, so what is the point?

    God does not change to suit us, we need to change to suit God. (well, we don't change us, God changes us)

    Peace

  • TD
    TD

    Is this necessarily a slippery slope?

    I think there's a lot of "closet apostasy" on the 99.99% figure. One of my wife's brothers, for example is PO in his congregation and I know he doesn't accept it. When pressed, the most he will say is, "Jehovah will be more merciful than we can possibly imagine."

    How he manages to walk the mental tightrope, I don't know, but some people apparently have a huge capacity to tolerate conflicting ideas.

  • Terry
    Terry
    God does not change to suit us, we need to change to suit God.

    God could have made humans equal to himself. God chose not to do this. God made man inferior. The inferior is a fishbone that sticks in God's throat.

    Adam wanted to be just like his Father, God. If Adam had been just like his father to begin with he would not have the longing which led to his making the effort to achieve the status of "knowing good and bad".

    The defect in man was there from the outset BY DESIGN when God refused to make man knowing good and evil.

    It was a set up.

    We need to "change to suit God"???

    We cannot question why God made us inferior while demanding we be like him?

    Oh yes we can!

    This is how we break free from superstition!

    It is the only way out.

  • Open mind
    Open mind

    Terry: Loved your comments. Thank you. I'm right there with you. I'm just hoping to find a brief, although irrational, resting place for my wife's psyche as she (hopefully) comes to grips with a huge change to her worldview.

    bob1999:

    But, Romans 9:19 "who are you, a man, to answer back to God?"

    I'll take a stab at this even though the likes of Terry and many others could do & have done, a much better job.

    I'm agnostic. If the creator of the universe were to reveal him/herself/it and say I need to do X, Y & Z I'd probably do it. I say probably, because somehow I've acquired this thing called a conscience. Paul says God put it there. If god revealed himself and says "Obey me or I'll kill you. And, by the way, you better be sincere & love me while you're obeying me. And you better just take that "free will" I've given you and not use it. And while we're at it you better jump in line with all these other Stepford Wives & Husbands here in the vegetarian paradise." Well, I think I'd say, sign me up for eternal non-existance, thank-you very much. But, if god showed up in a way that makes sense, and had reasonable requirements and (for extra credit points explained a little more about this messy thing called life on earth) well, sure I'd go along with the program.

    But I think that's about as likely to happen as a plate of flying spaghetti miraculously appearing on my desk for lunch today.

    TD: I think it is a slippery slope that can't include belief in the Bible.

    Open Mind

  • TopHat
    TopHat

    This is how we break free from superstition!

    It is the only way out.

    But, but, Terry, how do we break free from death? AND why is the BIBLE or Hebrew scrolls still around after so many millenniums, when all other religious ideas and writings are now a part of history. There has to be something powerful keeping us humans interested in the Holy Books.

  • Open mind
    Open mind

    TD: Sorry, I didn't fully make my point. You said:

    How he manages to walk the mental tightrope, I don't know, but some people apparently have a huge capacity to tolerate conflicting ideas.

    I guess I could just make the point about Armageddon being just a little bit of "overkill" from a loving God and hope that my wife can just handle it wherever it leads her. My concern, is that it will be too much at once and so she'll just pull back into her safe JW worldview completely. Someone a few days ago made a post about how much we humans are resistant to change. I think that's true for many, myself included. Baby steps are easier to take.

    So, bottom line: Is there a semi-logical, temporary resting place for my wife? Or, is it all or nothing. Rationally, I thinks it's all or nothing. I'm looking for an "irrational way-station" if you will.

    Open Mind

  • poppers
    poppers

    "when all other religious ideas and writings are now a part of history." HUH? Ever read the Upanishads, the Vedas, the Bhagavadita? Hundreds of millions of Hindus do. Do you so easily dismiss these people because they hold to beliefs other than Christianity? These writing predate the bible yet they still influence people.

  • TopHat
    TopHat

    No I haven't heard of those books you mentioned, poppers. But I am sure the Hindus have read or at least know of the Book called the Bible. Maybe those books you mentioned were written before Moses wrote the first 5 books but that does NOT mean the history was NOT there in verbal communication.

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