Posts by sunny23

104

If you don't believe in God, Jesus, and everything in the Bible, you are willfully ignorant.

by defender of truth in

ablebodiedman posted~ 10 mins ago (8/16/2014).

post 741 of 741. .

"i absolutely 100% believe in god, jesus christ and everything recorded in the bible.. the reason why is because of the overwhelming amount of evidence.. there is so much evidence that it has taken me years to examine what has cemented my own convictions.".

sunny23

Good point Defender. Just read the entire first chapter of 2Thess. It should be called Logical Messalonians:

2Thess ch1:

2 May you have undeserved kindness and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 We are obligated always to give thanks to God for you, brothers. This is fitting, because your faith is growing exceedingly and the love of each and every one of you is increasing toward one another.+ 4 As a result we ourselves take pride in you+ among the congregations of God because of your endurance and faith in all your persecutions and the hardships* that you are suffering.*+ 5 This is a proof of the righteous judgment of God, leading to your being counted worthy of the Kingdom of God, for which you are indeed suffering.+

6 This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you.+ 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus+ from heaven with his powerful angels+ 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus.+ 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction+ from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.

11 To that very end we always pray for you, that our God may count you worthy (deserving)of his calling+ and with his power perform completely all the good that he pleases and every work of faith. 12 This is so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you and you in union with him, according to the undeserved kindness of our God and of the Lord Jesus Christ." -NWT2013

^^ THAT is a letter written to a congregation and in present tense concerning Christ's approaching imminent revelation and glorious destruction of mostly all those who didn't write or read this letter(and subsequent approved congregations). It uses terms "we, us, you" and is addressed as if these things will happen in their lifetime...FAIL. Notice it also starts and finishes with the mentioning of God's peace and his giving "Undeserved Kindness!" Now if I were to exhibit "undeserved kindness" to my daughter, it would be in treating her with gentle kindness when I feel that her actions are undeserving of kindness but I give it anyway. In other words, she wouldn't have to meet certain criteria to deserve my kindness, I would give it no matter what, out of peace and love. However this scripture says that God will destroy with fire those that don't even know of him. How do they "deserve" punishment by a God of Undeserved Kindness? The writer also notes to be sure to pray so that God will count the reader as deserving of His Undeserving Kindness. Someone's lost their marbles!!

40

Blood in whose army!?

by sunny23 in

used this method to logically convince my friend who is also dfd of one of many reasons as to why i shall never return and he agreed.

let me know if anything is false or misleading and we can revise :).

blood transfusions:.

sunny23

If president Obama made a Law that said you would be put to DEATH by lethal injection if you were to perform ANY type of work on Sunday without defining the parameters of "work" then I would become a slave to that law too unless I didn't value my life.

So after Jesus it was then perceived as: "well you can do easy good hearted tasks like plucking wheat, eating it, or helping sick people or trapped animals but ANYTHING else including making tents or building temples and we will have to throw rocks at you until you die , got it!?"

40

Blood in whose army!?

by sunny23 in

used this method to logically convince my friend who is also dfd of one of many reasons as to why i shall never return and he agreed.

let me know if anything is false or misleading and we can revise :).

blood transfusions:.

sunny23

So when Jesus illustrated pulling a sheep out of a pit on the Sabbath day is that not considered work? Honestly a sheep wouldn't die if it fell in a pit on Sabbath afternoon and you pulled it out the next morning. And as I said above, pulling a sheep out of a deep pit would be hard work for a fasting 5'7" 130lb middle eastern man. Is "helping" or "saving" a person or animal or any humanitarian action not considered "work" at all ever? So it's ok for doctors and veterinarians to "work" on Sabbath day if the Sabbath law was still instituted because what those two professionals do are not considered work?

"Whosoever does ANY work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to DEATH."

Define work please.

Also when Jesus said, "Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the Sabbath."

Could it not also be interpreted as "Therfore it is lawful to do good work on the Sabbath?"

Perhaps the initial instituted law should have said,"whosoever does any non humanitarian work on the Sabbath day shall be put to DEATH?"

40

Blood in whose army!?

by sunny23 in

used this method to logically convince my friend who is also dfd of one of many reasons as to why i shall never return and he agreed.

let me know if anything is false or misleading and we can revise :).

blood transfusions:.

sunny23

Dan I could see them saying that and even if it's true the logic that doing something "good" is above all else still persists. If Jesus were here today standing next to a child whose severe blood loss from a crash requires a blood transfusion and the parents resist he might say,

"Who here among you, that has puppy dog, and if it falls into the pool, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? How much then is a human better than a dog? Therefore it is lawful to do good life saving things to all humans by any means necessary!"

For Jesus not to be breaking the Sabbath then healing people and picking from fields would have to not meet the definition of "work" and yet Jesus uses an illustration of retrieving a sheep out of a pit. I don't know about you but I would consider it some hard work to try and get a fatass sheep out of a deep narrow pit all by myself! And Jesus knew that and refferences it IMO to show that "good" work CAN be performed on the Sabbath day and you would remain free from punishment. Therefore it's safe to assume that using blood for "good work" in a manner unknown in ancient times can be performed without punishment from God. Honestly what kind of supreme being could actively watch a father give his blood to his daughter and save her life and then condemn both of them to be cut off from salvation for healing and saving a life out of noble actions?!

40

Blood in whose army!?

by sunny23 in

used this method to logically convince my friend who is also dfd of one of many reasons as to why i shall never return and he agreed.

let me know if anything is false or misleading and we can revise :).

blood transfusions:.

sunny23

Thanx and it's "sir" ;)

40

Blood in whose army!?

by sunny23 in

used this method to logically convince my friend who is also dfd of one of many reasons as to why i shall never return and he agreed.

let me know if anything is false or misleading and we can revise :).

blood transfusions:.

sunny23

Used this method to logically convince my friend who is also DFd of one of many reasons as to why I shall never return and he agreed. Let me know if anything is false or misleading and we can revise :)

Blood Transfusions:

Back in ancient times , the OT, were the 10 commandments important?

Yes

Was there any blood law mentioned in them?

No

The Sabbath and keeping it was one of the 10 commandments right?

Yes

Breaking that commandment meant severe punishment, death, a greater punishment than breaking a so called blood law?

Yes

Exodus 31:14-15 "You shall keep the Sabbath, for it is holy unto you: every one that defiles it shall surely be put to DEATH: for whosoever does ANY work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever does any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to DEATH."

Did people get executed for eating blood in the bible?

No

Is it safe to say that keeping to the ten commandments was more important than a law on blood?

Yes

Did Jesus ever break the Sabbath law?

Yes

Why did he?

Matthew 12:1-13

Jesus said: "What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the Sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? How much then is a man better than a sheep?Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the Sabbath days. Then said he to the man, Stretch forth your hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other."

So Jesus taught that the preservation of life supersedes law?

Yes

Can a blood transfusion save a life?

Yes

Did they have the capabilities to use blood to save lives in the bible?

No

Did Jesus and disciples at one time have the ability to cure blood disorders

and save lives and did they do so whilst breaking other laws?

Yes

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

sunny23

I must admit that through my teenage years and into my early twenties I had a deep disregard for authorities. I ran from police on more than several occasions. There were much worse things I had wanted to do as a fear of civil punishment was non existent in me but I refrained because fear of God was within me. Now that I'm older and have real things to lose for acting wrecklessly, I do fear civil punishment but I no longer fear Godly punishment. The point is that in some circumstances, fear of God, however dilusional it might be now in hindsight, can have a meaningful role in civility where these so-called "in-grained" ethics might fail or where fear of governmental punishment is dampered.

36

Letter About Blood Fractions

by Bangalore in

letter about blood fractions.. .

.

bangalore.

sunny23

ldrnomo do you still have a copy of the original letter you sent?

Im curious to what you said about the alcohol analogy. I was 19 when that came out and taking technical communications in college and remember thinking it was a major Cum Hoc fallacy. It's comparing two situations including two substances that can't be analagous. Alcohol can't be injected intravenously to save a life, in fact it will kill a person so of course no doctor would be behind doing such a thing. This makes the analogy misleading to the readers as they quickly assume that injecting alcohol into your veins is crazy and thus so is blood.

Island man i really liked your response! very concise and in a way I couldn't have worded better.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

sunny23

Ok so this is honestly my 9th attempt over the past 2 months at typing out a long response to give further backing to a theist argument to defend God's inaction only to re-read it before I post and delete it all. There really isn't a way in my eyes to give sound logic with or without the bible to give reason on this matter. Through both this thread and other sources i'm now aggnostic. I feel though concerning the existence or non existence of God, as this thread has brought up frequently that it is something to be argued between both theist and atheist scientists as brough out by Neil deGrassr Tyson (Atheist Astro Physicist) here in this video from 0:00 until 4:50 he explaines this. Interesting watch, if you would like to see the entire 1.5hr speech it is linked in the descption of this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xvILvxYbFA

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

sunny23

I have read about 45 pages of this thread as it seems to grow almost 20 pages every time I check.

Referring back to the most recent summary for reference here but have learned A LOT from the individual posts and am extremely grateful for this threads contributions as it has drastically and effectively changed much of my views in a very short time! I still feel that some of the rationality regarding the “responses” to some theist claims are a bit misleading and/or presumptuous but I feel that perhaps it’s more that the responses need to be “cleaned up” to avoid confusion or even further disagreement with them. Working to address that now, be back soon, and thanks to Cofty and others for their persistence in this thread! ;-)