Posts by kaik

53

Is Watchtower's stance against education only for North American witnesses

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

i was reading on a european ex jw forum where some feel that watchtower's railing against higher education is primarily for north america issue.

this is due that many in usa and canada leave home to leave on campus.

it was mentioned that many young european jw attend universities and its not frowned on.. i found this odd because i heard what morris and losch said about education in italy.

kaik

In Eastern Europe WT was against higher education as far I remember. There were handful college educated people in my KH, but majority of the JWs are barely literate there, usually having only mandatory education to the age 16. During communist rule, many JWs were denied higher education by the government and were forced to work in the coal mining areas. This education deficit caused by repressive government is very visible in the group born before 1968.

Other refused to got to professional schools because they were discouraged by the elder. I had numerous talks about my higher education with my elders and I got my undergrad and postgrad after WT world. All my JW relatives have basic education. My mom got her education before she got involved with the cult. Various studies in Czech Republic and Slovakia had often put JWs as one the least literate demographic group out there, just bit better than gypsies. The Czech census from 2011 indicates that less than 7% of JWs have college education, while 13.5% of Catholics, 42% of Jews, 16% of 7DA, and 20% of Czech protestants.

43

Je Suis Charlie

by Slidin Fast in

this incident in paris makes me feel absolutely furious.

yes i feel desperately sorry for the victims and their families no one should have to deal with that.

the thing that makes me feel absolutely incandescent though is the attack on freedom of speech and expression.

kaik

I do not think the events in Paris will have lasting impact on European society as the liberal left will continue to silence any criticism of immigration from Muslim countries and Islam religion. Ten years ago, Muslim terrorist blew up metro in Madrid. Spanish government even lied about it and blamed it originally on the Basque groups. Also does anyone remember London bombing, and numerous incidents in France in past 12 months? Did it changed anything? Did any politicians or elected officials did anything? In Sweden, Denmark, Germany it is all the same, resigned population. Unfortunately, I do not see it as wake up call based on the past incidents. I think European Union is in the point of no return.

4

The "Lord Jesus" Descends Again?

by runForever in

this is a chart i created that charts the use of the term "lord jesus" in the watchtower magazine.. interesting to note that the term only broke the 60 count 4 times and those were close intervals of 7 years with the last count above 60 being an 8 year interval.. .

.

kaik

When I was associated with JW and WT, I have barely knew anything about Jesus. JWs lacking deep knowledge of Jesus Christ, and they do not see him as a Savior as do other Christian denomination. Jesus in WT theology is moderator to the 144,000 whose number in my time in JW was around 8500, for the rest the salvation lies with the tit of the WT. Jehovah witnesses are often not even aware what Jesus had said and what order, and their entire system revolves on several selected chapters of the NT with his invisible return. So it does not surprises me to see this number chart.

41

Do you believe what the Bible teaches? If "yes", why? If "no", why?

by Tenacious in

if you do believe in the bible's message, do you believe society has gotten better, worse, or has remained the same?.

if you don't believe in the bible's message, do you believe society has gotten better, worse, or has remained the same?.

on a personal note, there are many things that i can't help but notice that coincide with what the apostle paul wrote to timothy in his second letter chapter 3 regarding tough times:.

kaik

Bible has a lot of nonsense, and tit was a reason why so many Christian denomination happened since the 100AD. There was also huge splits during late Antiquity and numerous heresies. Even Christian rulers realized that it is impossible to follow bible literally from Justinian to Charlemagne and developed own political, judicial, and economic laws to match some of the Christian interpretation.

The life during Roman era was not so great as people believe due Renaissance influence. Life expectancy in Roman times was around 33, bit higher than early medieval Europe or during 100 Years war, but still low. Rome experienced two centuries of stability, but eventually the economic and political system crippled after Marcomanni wars onward. Plagues of Cyprian, Justinian, and Antonius decimated millions. Skeletal bodies of the late antiquity shows deep problem with malnourishment. Except population of Rome and large cities, and the middle upper class, millions of Romans lived in poverty and were enslaved. They had much worse life survival prospect than free medieval peasant.

Since Renaissance, human population enjoyed continuous grow of living standard with some setbacks like 30 Years War, French Revolution, WWI & WWII or Great Recession. Nonetheless, the human race lives better with each subsequent generation. Even poor people today are better off than poor people in 1980. With present technology and social freedom, you would not last long during Great Depression or not to mention 19th century. Life is certainly not perfect nor fair, and we live somewhat in failed political and social systems; yet it is the best we had in the history of humanity.

16

Jewish Exegesis of the OT Scriptures in the days of Jesus

by fulltimestudent in

the sub-structure of the nt, as understood by new testament scholar, charles harold dodd, is based on,.

... passages of ot scripture with their application to the gospel facts ... it provided the starting point of the theological constructions of paul, (and) the author of to the hebrews, and the fourth evangelist.

it is the substructure of all christian theology and contains already its chief regulative ideas.

kaik

It is also important to mention FTS, that Jesus supposedly lived in Egypt in his childhood, where he may had obtain some education. Egypt in the Roman times was home to largest Jewish diaspora numbering about 1 million. Majority of Jews in the 1st century lived outside Judea (about 2/3), and their primary language in Egypt was Greek. Helenization of Jews is certainly factor especially considering Alexandria to be the center of the Jewish intellectual elite until Trajan, far more than Jerusalem. It is impossible to divide Judaism from province of Judea and Egypt under one common Roman administration at the time of Jesus. However, in the Judea, the Aramaic language was the language of the masses who were mostly illiterate peasants. Only educate elite could communicate in more than one language, dealing with Roman administration and with their holy books.

16

Jewish Exegesis of the OT Scriptures in the days of Jesus

by fulltimestudent in

the sub-structure of the nt, as understood by new testament scholar, charles harold dodd, is based on,.

... passages of ot scripture with their application to the gospel facts ... it provided the starting point of the theological constructions of paul, (and) the author of to the hebrews, and the fourth evangelist.

it is the substructure of all christian theology and contains already its chief regulative ideas.

kaik

I studied with rabbi and got very good insight from him regarding OT and why Jesus is never acceptable to Judaism as a Messiah. Educated Jews find NT laughable as it is far from the teaching of the Judaism and its core beliefs and values.

Couple days ago I have discussed on different thread regarding literacy of Jews in the time of Jesus. 90% of them in his time were illiterate and they had to depend on oral tradition and memory to recite their beliefs and teaching. Only handful of priests were educated and had access to various reading material. It was time before print press and copies of the manuscripts were expensive to do so. Literacy among Jews before the Renaissance was still bit higher than for majority of Europeans, but still two thirds were illiterate. So I do not think the masses during Jesus time were well educated in the OT or had access to them.

Split between Judaism and Christianity was started by apostle Paul to make old Jewish beliefs obsolete and new religion based on Jesus death desirable. In the 1st century, this split did not exist and was completed by 100 AD, about three generations after death of Jesus.

20

Is child abuse becoming the 'Benghazi' of exJW's?

by Simon in

i've been noticing a trend recently that seems to becoming prevalent in posts which i think is a little sad and counter productive where, whatever the topic is actually about, someone will be keen to remind everyone about child abuse issues within the wts.. any sort of abuse, especially that of children, is a very serious issue but i'm not sure it's prevention is necessarily best-served by brining it up at every opportunity.

it ends up looking a little like the republican party's obsession with benghazi where they harp on about it to such an extent that people have become blind to it and it almost becomes a punchline.

people become less and less convinced of the claims because they hear them too often.. trying to turn any discussion into including comments on it, however well-intentioned, starts to look misguided at some point.

kaik

I don't think so. JWs do not care about child abuse. They follow "save the rod, spoil the child". Child abuse cannot be Benghazi of the JW's faith, because it does not shake their beliefs. Child abuse is just NOT one of them. Court cases all over the world are full of JWs abuses of their children for decades. In Czech Republic, JWs are known to abuse their children since 1960's, and there are numerous documented court cases. Children were taken away by CPS and many of them lived in foster homes and state institutions. The abuses were documented by investigative journalism in CZ republic in 1999 and 2000, where JWs were hiding behind the faith and freedom of worship. These witnesses never saw themselves as a child abusers, but as martyr for their faith. Czech Department of Interior considers JWs as one of the biggest child abuser in the country, but it is crucial to say that the Department mentions that the abuse is failing of individuals than systematic approach from the organization.

27

Is shunning effective?

by rebel8 in

does shunning accomplish its objectives:.

make the person repent?.

deter others from committing similar offenses in the future?.

kaik

Shunning is effective in certain situation on certain individuals. For people who suffered emotional abuse and trauma from their JW families, shunning can be a way to break away from poisonous, unhealthy surrounding; and person can heal from it. For others as mentioned int he posts, shunning is a control policy from WT to keep flock in fear. Many JWs would leave WT and KH if they would not fear losing friends and family, and social ties. With this fear, it keeps them nicely obedient and subjected to the will of WT.

41

The Bizarre Free Will

by John_Mann in

two years before i left jw world i came to a strange conclusion about the jw cosmology and the free will doctrine.. basically i came to conclusion that satan is right about the universal sovereign issue.

and i came with that just only using jws premises, no outside apostasy.

i just told to my sister what she thought about it, and she said to me: dont tell anyone about this!.

kaik

Issue of free will is interesting and linger from the foundation of Judaism and predates Christianity. It was again debated by early Catholic fathers and later by St. Thomas. Modern fundamentalists like JWs diverge from doctrines and debates of Jews, St. Augustine, and Thomas by understanding what free will is. Jews believe that free will allows us to violate the Torah. Catholic church believes that our free will is limited in our capabilities, but we have free will to choose to sin. Another interesting point Judaism teaches, that angels do not have inclination to sin, but they may if they are materialized on Earth. Pretty much the humans can have a bad influence on spiritual beings. Angels who destroyed Sodom were banished on Earth for 133 years according to Judaism because they did not tell the people of city that they are condemned by G-d but by the angles themselves. Satan in Judaism is not someone who rebelled against G-d, but he is hired by Him as a servant and public accuser. There is no anti-polar view of bad Angel in Judaism as opposition to G-d.

Notion of free will is complex that I get lost in reading in St. Thomas' Summa Theologica:

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/summa/FP/FP083.html#FPQ83OUTP1

18

What if WT will claim, that Jehovah has pulled a "Jonah and Nineveh" on them?

by prologos in

wt seems to be helpless in really dealing with the failed prophecies, pending dates, overlapping groups--.. what if they declare victory, blame jehovah, in that he allowed the nations to come to their senses and not further escalate the use of weaponry, "destroying [life on] the earth"?

in a second fulfillment of .

the "repentant ninevites, disappointed jonah" bible story?

kaik

Also it is crucial to mention that Nineveh was destroyed, so WT will claim that the destruction was only postponed. Russell said: "Jonah walked into the city of Nineveh and said, "Yet forty days and Nineveh shall be overthrown." The prophecy was fulfilled in forty literal years." And rest of the chapter in the Studies of the scripture deals with God being merciful and slow to unleash his punishment. WT can add 40 years to any of its overlapping generation and still based their nonsense from 1914.