kitties_and_horses_oh_my!

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Posts by kitties_and_horses_oh_my!

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  41

  Marriage question

  by starfish422 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i have a question for those who got married in a jw ceremony, or who became jws after being married.

  did the elder marrying you, or those studying with you, counsel you as to what forms of sexual intercourse are acceptable within jehovah's loving organization(tm)?

  just having a "discussion" of sorts on another board and i'm being challenged by a dutiful jw wife.

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  kitties_and_horses_oh_my!

  I never got married, but I have the impression that JW's who obey don't have much of a sex life...Do they?

  Go with your impressions.... :-(
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  41

  Marriage question

  by starfish422 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i have a question for those who got married in a jw ceremony, or who became jws after being married.

  did the elder marrying you, or those studying with you, counsel you as to what forms of sexual intercourse are acceptable within jehovah's loving organization(tm)?

  just having a "discussion" of sorts on another board and i'm being challenged by a dutiful jw wife.

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  kitties_and_horses_oh_my!

  If you were married by an elder, now that you're out, do you feel that somehow your marriage is less valid?

  No, but I would love to renew my vows with doc someday - write our own vows and share them in front of people who truly love us and who we truly love. Our marriage is valid, of course, and the fact that it was a stupid ceremony done in a rather sterile way doesn't change that I meant my vows when I said them. But I would love to have the chance to share with the world what doc really means to me and what our love is now.
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  160

  Why ? Why? WHY???

  by rune in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this topic has been rolling around in my head for some time.

  i don't expect that i'll write it perfectly as it needs to be articulated in different ways for different people...but i will do my best.

  and worst of all, i am not expecting any kind of response that will satisfy me.

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  kitties_and_horses_oh_my!

  kitties_and_horses_oh_my!: Yes we do dream about a great many thing, I agree, as well about our desire colouring what we see. But even so, there is more than one way to attempt to fill an emotional need, rather than blindly jumping into something. If you're hopeless about life, you can seek a support group, take up a new hobby, anything to encourage you and/or get you around people who are motivated - but instead, some sign up with a religion like the Witnesses. Are you saying that making what I see as huge mistakes like these is unavoidable for some? I suppose you wouldn't be wrong there... I'm just not sure if what you said was just a statement (in which, ok, it was pretty good IMO)...or was it an argument for just letting people do what they do because they're going to make huge mistakes in their lives no matter what?

  Thinking...hmm...I guess my point was this: it may very well be foolish to join the Witnesses, even dangerous. It certainly was a dangerous thing for me and many of my friends who suffered emotionally a great deal due to contstant guilt and shame for the mere fact that we are human. If my child were wanting to become a JW I would do everything in my power to convince him/her to reason and think about it and come to (what I would view as) a wise decision.

  But when I said that I'm not foolish enough to think that I'm never going to delude myself again - as much as I hope I can always be honest with myself, often our desires can be overwhelming and we make choices we later regret - I meant that I know that it probably will happen in the future. Hopefully it will not be a dangerous delusion, and hopefully I will always wake up in time. But here's an example: have you ever been infatuated? It happens to everyone, I think, no matter who you are and perhaps even at times in your life you wouldn't expect it. It can be dangerous: destroy marriages, ruin friendships. But it still happens.

  I'm rambling, trying to make clear my muddled thoughts, so please bare with me. No, joining the dubs is not an unavoidable mistake, at least for most. But when we're overwhelmed by emotion we can delude ourselves into believing that there is a utopian answer for us. I could end up infatuated with someone and think that person could save me, make my life perfect. A stupid, foolish delusion, and yet it's easy to fall into because of our desire to be loved, cared for, nurtured, protected, wanted.

  So it comes down to two things:

  1 - as much as I hate the dubs, I will not condemn someone who falls into their hands. That person may be foolish for a moment, but I have done the same in other ways. Emotions are very powerful forces and when we're hurting, alone and scared then we don't always see things for what they are. Same with mysticism. I don't believe in things like that myself, but I am not in the same position as someone else and if it brings them comfort when they are in unimaginable pain - however much I do not want that kind of comfort for myself - it is not my place to judge. To disagree, yes; to say I do not want that choice for myself, yes. But it is their choice. Taking away personal choice is the way the dubs work, not you and I.

  2 - I believe in love, and friendship, and things that I cannot touch. Does this make me a mystic of sorts? I cannot see or taste love or friendship. I can see the results of these, however - a friend listening in a time of need, my husband holding me when I'm scared, sharing your joy with a dear friend and seeing them become joyous themselves b/c of their caring for you and being so happy that you are happy...but love is not tangible. So for me to believe in love takes a kind of faith. For me to believe that what my husband says is true, that he loves me and wants to be with me forever, takes faith. I cannot base my life upon constant wondering if what he says is true. I choose to trust him and continue my life as if what he says is 100% the truth. Not everything is testable in a double-blind study.

  You asked if what I said was merely a statement, or an argument for letting people do whatever they want b/c they're going to make huge mistakes anyway. I do not see the need to convince anyone that others should be allowed to do what they want - I think that is right of all beings. I guess it all comes down to, for me, the point that I'm going to screw up, and so are others, and it's going to hurt like hell at times. And then you realize what you've done - hopefully - and are able to start again. Self-delusion is a mistake that I make, that I think everyone makes from time to time. I just think that to criticize others for their self-delusions (be it mysticism or anything else) is a sign that you - not you in particular, I mean myself or anyone - are fooling yourself into thinking you are immune to being foolish. No one is immune to emotions, to trying to fill needs in at times very stupid ways. If that includes mysticism, I don't want to make that choice myself, but it isn't my place to lash out at someone who makes what I feel is a foolish choice. It is their choice. To control others, even for what we believe is right, is a dub thing.

  I have made many foolish choices. I will continue to do so, no matter how much I wish I never would again. And I want loving, kind people to help pick me up when I fall, as I pick up the ones I love. But to prevent someone from taking a path you don't agree with makes you the person you do not wish to be.

  You are a dear person, Rune, and I meant it when I said I'm sending you a care package at Christmas! Please understand that I am not attacking you personally. I value your opinions and beliefs and think you are very intelligent. But I guess I'm also realistic about who I am. I cannot expect of others what I do not ask of myself.
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  160

  Why ? Why? WHY???

  by rune in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this topic has been rolling around in my head for some time.

  i don't expect that i'll write it perfectly as it needs to be articulated in different ways for different people...but i will do my best.

  and worst of all, i am not expecting any kind of response that will satisfy me.

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  kitties_and_horses_oh_my!

  And an emotional need is caused by a possible emotional defecit (for instance, someone may not be lacking at all if their needs are supposedly met by their faith, reinforced by family/friends/whoever, from a very young age and still remain with it). If someone is lacking for something emotionally in some respect, and their desires weave (or take in) something that mostly likely cannot be, are they not dangerously setting the bar to a place that mostly likely cannot ever be reached? I suppose I am just speaking from a mental health perspective. If disillusionment occurs, any number of things can happen, because that emotional need once again gapes open, this time with the gruesome realization that it was all a dream and the world is much 'harsher' than the subject was prepared for.

  Hmm...I have to agree that filling an emotional need (or trying to) with "a dream" is a dangerous proposition. But we all do that in so many ways, not just with religion, and not just out of foolishness. Part of being young (indeed, any age, b/c we are always learning and never know everything) is that we look towards filling whatever need is the most prominent as some sort of salvation. "If I was in love..." I think is the most common. And so we close our eyes and jump blindly - or even if our eyes are open, our desires color what we see. I think (hope) we learn as we grow older, but I think we are all capable of self-delusion (without even knowing it at times) and although it's a dangerous thing to do, I don't know that we ever grow past it in our short lifespan, at least not entirely. Point is this: I know I want to fill my emotional needs with things of substance, but I have deluded myself before (being a dub, etc) and I don't pretend that I am so mature/intelligent/etc. that I can guarantee that won't happen again. It hurts like hell to realize you were wrong, but the fortunate thing is that hurting is fatal. I hope realizations don't ever end for me, it would be tragic if I had nothing else to gain emotionally.
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  14

  Looking for Old Friends

  by kitties_and_horses_oh_my! in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i know it would be a huge stroke of luck to find any of these people, but if you're here or if you know of them, please pm me - i would be eternally grateful:.

  david wiebe (sp?

  from portland, oregon).

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  kitties_and_horses_oh_my!

  Rachel's last name used to be Goldstein, but I don't remember what it was when she was married to Jared."
  
  Was this Jared originally from Seattle?

  I think he was! They moved back there after they left here but before she was d/f'd.
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  14

  Looking for Old Friends

  by kitties_and_horses_oh_my! in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i know it would be a huge stroke of luck to find any of these people, but if you're here or if you know of them, please pm me - i would be eternally grateful:.

  david wiebe (sp?

  from portland, oregon).

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  kitties_and_horses_oh_my!

  I knew a Rachael goldstein who would be in herlate 20s now i would guess maybe a bit older.She and her family moved from my a western washington cong. about 12 or so yrs ago.Her father was a brick or rock layer her folks live in seattle now i think

  That's her!!! Do you know how to contact her?
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  14

  Looking for Old Friends

  by kitties_and_horses_oh_my! in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i know it would be a huge stroke of luck to find any of these people, but if you're here or if you know of them, please pm me - i would be eternally grateful:.

  david wiebe (sp?

  from portland, oregon).

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  kitties_and_horses_oh_my!

  I know it would be a huge stroke of luck to find any of these people, but if you're here or if you know of them, please PM me - I would be eternally grateful:

  David Wiebe (sp? from Portland, Oregon)

  Malina Hansen/Lemons (from Tri-Cities, WA)

  Harmony Schmidt/Nelson (from Portland, Oregon)

  Rachel (used to be from Tri-Cities, heard you were d/f'd for apostasy on the West side of the state and got divorced, I don't remember your last name but you were awesome!)

  Thanks guys in advance if any of you know these people. Love, Kitties
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  11

  Making Up For Lost Time....Need Advice

  by kitties_and_horses_oh_my! in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  doc and i have decided that when i finish my master's degree in psychology we're going to move somewhere for me to pursue my phd.

  it's an amazing opportunity, somethng that as a dub i never even dreamed of.

  i have so many questions though: how do i find out which schools are considered to be at the top for psych programs?

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  kitties_and_horses_oh_my!

  Thanks to everyone for their amazing support! It's so exciting to look at our future and see possiblities other than walking down the same streets, over and over, begging people to listen to us tell them how to run their lives. I used to wonder how the "worldly" people couldn't see how happy we were and how we had everything they wanted...sad that I thought that. My dear friend Marcia (never a JW) had two Witness girls come to her door the other day and she said it almost made her cry. Beautiful girls, 18 or so, and their whole world consisted of our small city and the same thing for the rest of their lives and a lack of the beautiful joy of truly living. It's not so surprising to me anymore that I lived in fear and guilt and was motivated only by those things. How can you be motivated by joy when you don't know what it is? And my house isn't as clean anymore (I just don't get so thrilled over cleaning the baseboards anymore LOL) and doc and I don't always have homecooked meals every night and sometimes the laundry gets behind. And we are happy. Incredibly so.
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  11

  Making Up For Lost Time....Need Advice

  by kitties_and_horses_oh_my! in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  doc and i have decided that when i finish my master's degree in psychology we're going to move somewhere for me to pursue my phd.

  it's an amazing opportunity, somethng that as a dub i never even dreamed of.

  i have so many questions though: how do i find out which schools are considered to be at the top for psych programs?

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  kitties_and_horses_oh_my!

  Doc and I have decided that when I finish my Master's Degree in Psychology we're going to move somewhere for me to pursue my PhD. It's an amazing opportunity, somethng that as a dub I never even dreamed of. I have so many questions though: how do I find out which schools are considered to be at the top for Psych programs? What do I need to do to prep now to increase my chances of admission? Besides the school, we also want to move to somewhere where there's a fair amount of culture and the summers aren't super-humid, if possible. It's so exciting to finally be persuing dreams that I never imagined would even be possible. Doc wants to get his degree in Computer Science with a minor in Mathmatics. It's odd that we're in our late 20's and only now considering all of this, so different from the 18-year olds who have few responsibilities and can backpack through Europe, etc. But I think we both want to do everything we missed out on, regardless of whether it's the typical time to do these things. I'd love to hear, too, from people who've taken risks after leaving and who (hopefully!) have been glad they did.

  Luv yu guys, thx!
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  26

  Sacred Feminine

  by New Castles in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  can someone help me with this topic??

  recently i have been interested in investigating on how historical and mythical information has shaped religion today, particularly christianity.

  one important piece of information that i keep coming across is the sacred feminine.

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  kitties_and_horses_oh_my!

  The Power of Myth is a great video/DVD series with Joseph Campbell that deals with that topic in-depth. Fascinating stuff!