Posts by shadow

10

Such a strange reaction

by leaving_quietly in

our cong.

did something that goes against some people's personal feelings on a certain something.

i won't reveal what... it doesn't matter.

shadow

what verse are you talking about? I'm sure there are verses that are not in the context you describe

44

Were You Ever Interrogated By The Elders?

by minimus in

jw
friends

some elders enjoy giving the business to the lowly flock thru intimidation.

.

some love to ask you to enter with them into the "backroom".. of course, there were many that never had run-ins with the shepherds because they were under the radar.. did you ever get interrogatted by the elders and if so, how did it go??

shadow

ssn587,

Fantastic! cracked me up

6

Can you help?

by Old Goat in

i seldom post here, though i read the posts here daily.

i spend most of my time just growing older.

(i became a witness in 1948, so you can guess my age.

shadow

Great stuff. Hope they finish. Thanks for posting this.

67

There are really TWO Watchtower Societies

by Terry in

with cedars release of leaked watchtower new light "adjusting" understanding of "who" the faithful and discreet slave is.....i am struck by something which similarly struck me back in 1967.in 1967 i had just been imprisoned.

being a male jehovah's witness during the viet nam war meant certain "issues" arose affecting a decision to respond to the military draft.i have told the story before.

but, i'd like go at it from another angle in view of the above mentioned new light about the fds fora different reason.it was first in 1967 i began to discover that there are two watchtower societies.let me explain why i say this and for what reasons.first of all, anybody standing in a kingdom hall or sitting in a seat at a vast international assembly saw people they would identify as all on the same page.

shadow

Those who did not accept alternative service WERE following their conscience. Not about that alternative service or what blood fractions can be used or what you can do after you're married. The conscience part comes in because it goes against the conscience of well-trained JWs to disobey the GB.

It's really quite simple.

27

Another probe of the Governing Body theory

by QC in

note the activity topology of spiritually "gifted" faithful religiously pure network of individual christians sustaining the therapeia (qerapeiavhousehold for spiritual cure) lu 12:42under the leadership of jesus in heaven.

all accomplished by autonomous ecclesia without central control from jerusalem.

this is the model antecedent for today's class of individual "faithful discreet" slaves.

shadow

Here are some references about the group usually referred to as the 1st century governing body. My comments are in black.

EVIDENCE FROM ACTS

Barnabas has to convince apostles about Paul. Jesus did not see fit to inform them. (Acts 9:23-30) 23 Now when a good many days were coming to a close, the Jews took counsel together to do away with him. 24 However, their plot against him became known to Saul. But they were closely watching also the gates both day and night in order to do away with him. 25 So his disciples took him and let him down by night through an opening in the wall, lowering him in a basket. 26 On arriving in Jerusalem he made efforts to join himself to the disciples; but they were all afraid of him, because they did not believe he was a disciple. 27 So Bar´na•bas came to his aid and led him to the apostles, and he told them in detail how on the road he had seen the Lord and that he had spoken to him, and how in Damascus he had spoken boldly in the name of Jesus. 28 And he continued with them, walking in and out at Jerusalem, speaking boldly in the name of the Lord; 29 and he was talking and disputing with the Greek-speaking Jews. But these made attempts to do away with him. 30 When the brothers detected this, they brought him down to Caes•a•re´a and sent him off to Tarsus. Grudgingly accept Peter’s testimony, again Jesus did not inform any group such as a governing body. (Acts 11:1-18 ) 11 Now the apostles and the brothers that were in Ju•de´a heard that people of the nations had also received the word of God. 2 So when Peter came up to Jerusalem, the [supporters] of circumcision began to contend with him, 3 saying he had gone into the house of men that were not circumcised and had eaten with them. 4 At this Peter commenced and went on to explain the particulars to them,
17 If, therefore, God gave the same free gift to them as he also did to us who have believed upon the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I should be able to hinder God?” 18Now when they heard these things, they acquiesced, and they glorified God, saying: “Well, then, God has granted repentance for the purpose of life to people of the nations also.” Brothers from Judea were the source of the problem about the circumcision issue. (Acts 15:1-26) 15 And certain men came down from Ju•de´a and began to teach the brothers: “Unless YOU get circumcised according to the custom of Moses, YOU cannot be saved.” 2 But when there had occurred no little dissension and disputing by Paul and Bar´na•bas with them, they arranged for Paul and Bar´na•bas and some others of them to go up to the apostles and older men in Jerusalem regarding this dispute.
3 Accordingly, after being conducted partway by the congregation, these men continued on their way through both Phoe•ni´cia and Sa•mar´i•a, relating in detail the conversion of people of the nations, and they were causing great joy to all the brothers. 4 On arriving in Jerusalem they were kindly received by the congregation and the apostles and the older men, and they recounted the many things God had done by means of them. 5 Yet, some of those of the sect of the Pharisees that had believed rose up from their seats and said: “It is necessary to circumcise them and charge them to observe the law of Moses.” Seems to have caused quite an argument. 6 And the apostles and the older men gathered together to see about this affair. 7 Now when much disputing had taken place, Peter rose and said to them: “Men, brothers, YOU well know that from early days God made the choice among YOU that through my mouth people of the nations should hear the word of the good news and believe; 8 and God, who knows the heart, bore witness by giving them the holy spirit, just as he did to us also. 9 And he made no distinction at all between us and them, but purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now, therefore, why are YOU making a test of God by imposing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our forefathers nor we were capable of bearing? 11 On the contrary, we trust to get saved through the undeserved kindness of the Lord Jesus in the same way as those people also.” Paul & Barnabas finally get the floor. 12 At that the entire multitude became silent, and they began to listen to Bar´na•bas and Paul relate the many signs and portents that God did through them among the nations. Perhaps more respect given to James by these Judean brothers than given to Paul? Sometimes local elder listened to more readily, or maybe because of sharing a similar view about need to still follow the Law? 13 After they quit speaking, James answered, saying: “Men, brothers, hear me. 14 Sym´e•on has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And with this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written, 16 ‘After these things I shall return and rebuild the booth of David that is fallen down; and I shall rebuild its ruins and erect it again, 17 in order that those who remain of the men may earnestly seek Jehovah, together with people of all the nations, people who are called by my name, says Jehovah, who is doing these things, 18 known from of old.’ 19 Hence my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God, 20 but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood. 21 For from ancient times Moses has had in city after city those who preach him, because he is read aloud in the synagogues on every sabbath.” 22 Then the apostles and the older men together with the whole congregation favored sending chosen men from among them to Antioch along with Paul and Bar´na•bas, namely, Judas who was called Bar´sab•bas and Silas, leading men among the brothers; 23 and by their hand they wrote: “The apostles and the older men, brothers, to those brothers in Antioch and Syria and Ci•li´cia who are from the nations: Greetings! Admission that problem was from Judea, although not instructed to do so. 24 Since we have heard that some from among us have caused YOU trouble with speeches, trying to subvert YOUR souls, although we did not give them any instructions, 25 we have come to a unanimous accord and have favored choosing men to send to YOU together with our loved ones, Bar´na•bas and Paul, 26 men that have delivered up their souls for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Later Paul had been warned by the spirit that if he went to Jerusalem, he would be imprisoned and face tribulations. (Acts 20:22-23) 22 And now, look! bound in the spirit, I am journeying to Jerusalem, although not knowing the things that will happen to me in it, 23 except that from city to city the holy spirit repeatedly bears witness to me as it says that bonds and tribulations are waiting for me. (Acts 21:4) 4 By a search we found the disciples and remained here seven days. But through the spirit they repeatedly told Paul not to set foot in Jerusalem. (Acts 21:8-14) 8 The next day we set out and arrived in Caes•a•re´a, and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelizer, who was one of the seven men, and we stayed with him. 9 This man had four daughters, virgins, that prophesied. 10 But while we were remaining quite a number of days, a certain prophet named Ag´a•bus came down from Ju•de´a, 11 and he came to us and took up the girdle of Paul, bound his own feet and hands and said: “Thus says the holy spirit, ‘The man to whom this girdle belongs the Jews will bind in this manner in Jerusalem and deliver into the hands of people of the nations.’” 12 Now when we heard this, both we and those of that place began entreating him not to go up to Jerusalem. 13 Then Paul answered: “What are YOU doing by weeping and making me weak at heart? Rest assured, I am ready not only to be bound but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.” 14 When he would not be dissuaded, we acquiesced with the words: “Let the will of Jehovah take place.” Years later governing body (??) was still concerned about impression given to Jews, leading to the bad advice given to Paul resulting in his arrest. (Acts 21:18-25) 18 But on the following [day] Paul went in with us to James; and all the older men were present. 19 And he greeted them and began giving in detail an account of the things God did among the nations through his ministry. 20 After hearing this they began to glorify God, and they said to him: “You behold, brother, how many thousands of believers there are among the Jews; and they are all zealous for the Law. 21 But they have heard it rumored about you that you have been teaching all the Jews among the nations an apostasy from Moses, telling them neither to circumcise their children nor to walk in the [solemn] customs. 22 What, then, is to be done about it? In any case they are going to hear you have arrived. 23 Therefore do this which we tell you: We have four men with a vow upon themselves. 24 Take these men along and cleanse yourself ceremonially with them and take care of their expenses, that they may have their heads shaved. And so everybody will know that there is nothing to the rumors they were told about you, but that you are walking orderly, you yourself also keeping the Law. 25 As for the believers from among the nations, we have sent out, rendering our decision that they should keep themselves from what is sacrificed to idols as well as from blood and what is strangled and from fornication.” This advice did not turn out too well for Paul, since he was beaten, arrested and later sent to Rome as a prisoner. Jesus did make this turn out for the good anyway. (Acts 23:11) 11 But the following night the Lord stood by him and said: “Be of good courage! For as you have been giving a thorough witness on the things about me in Jerusalem, so you must also bear witness in Rome.” Here’s the WT on this incident: *** w87 8/1 pp. 13-14 Christ Actively Leads His Congregation ***
An Unusual Decision
15 Another interesting example of Christ’s active direction of things from heaven is what took place after Paul’s third missionary journey. Luke relates that upon returning to Jerusalem, Paul made a full report to the members of the governing body on hand. Luke wrote: “Paul went in with us to James; and all the older men were present. And he greeted them and began giving in detail an account of the things God did among the nations through his ministry.” (Acts 21:17-19) After hearing Paul, the assembled body gave him clear-cut instruction, stating: “Do this which we tell you.” They ordered him to go to the temple and publicly demonstrate that he was not “teaching all the Jews among the nations an apostasy from Moses, telling them neither to circumcise their children nor to walk in the solemn customs.”—Acts 21:20-24. 16 One might question the wisdom of this instruction. As we have already seen, years earlier James, and perhaps other elders present on both occasions, had sent Paul away from Jerusalem because his life was threatened by “Greek-speaking Jews.” (Acts 9:29) In spite of this, Paul complied with the order, in line with what he had already said at 1 Corinthians 9:20. But like causes produce like effects. “Jews from [the Roman province of] Asia” caused a riot and tried to kill Paul. Only quick action by Roman soldiers saved him from being lynched. (Acts 21:26-32) Since Christ is the active Head of the congregation, why did he cause the governing body to require Paul to go into the temple? 17 The answer becomes apparent in what occurred the second night after Paul’s arrest. He had given a fine witness to the mob that sought to kill him and, the following day, to the Sanhedrin. (Acts 22:1-21; 23:1-6) For the second time he was nearly lynched. But that night, Jesus appeared to him and said: “Be of good courage! For as you have been giving a thorough witness on the things about me in Jerusalem, so you must also bear witness in Rome.” (Acts 23:11) Remember the threefold mission Christ had foretold for Paul. (Acts 9:15) Paul had borne Christ’s name to “the nations” and to “the sons of Israel,” but the time had now come for him to witness “to kings.” Because of that decision by the governing body, Paul was able to witness to Roman procurators Felix and Festus, to King Herod Agrippa II, and, finally, to Roman Emperor Nero. (Acts, chapters 24–26; 27:24) Who can doubt that Christ was behind all of this? Conveniently forgotten is the fact that Jesus previously warned Paul not to go. So was Jesus behind all this, or did he give Paul warnings to avoid Jerusalem, knowing that Paul would follow the misguided advice of the brothers in Jerusalem?

EVIDENCE FROM GALATIANS

Paul contacted directly by Jesus at his conversion and did not then report to a governing body. Even when he did go to Jerusalem, he did not see a governing body. (Galatians 1:17-19) 17 Neither did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles previous to me, but I went off into Arabia, and I came back again to Damascus. 18 Thenthree years later I went up to Jerusalem to visit Ce´phas, and I stayed with him for fifteen days. 19 But I saw no one else of the apostles, only James the brother of the Lord. Absent from Jerusalem for 14 years and then went only because of the problem that started from there. (Galatians 2:1-14) 2 Then after fourteen years I again went up to Jerusalem with Bar´na•bas, taking also Titus along with me. 2 But I went up as a result of a revelation. And I laid before them the good news which I am preaching among the nations, privately, however, before those who were outstanding men, for fear that somehow I was running or had run in vain. 3 Nevertheless, not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, although he was a Greek. 4 But because of the false brothers brought in quietly, who sneaked in to spy upon our freedom which we have in union with Christ Jesus, that they might completely enslave us— Paul refused to submit to brothers from Judea. 5 to these we did not yield by way of submission, no, not for an hour, in order that the truth of the good news might continue with YOU. Paul apparently observed no clearly defined positions and did not receive any new light there. It seems to me that Paul was not in the least reticent in their presence or intimidated by brothers in Judea. 6 But on the part of those who seemed to be something— whatever sort of men they formerly were makes no difference to me—God does not go by a man’s outward appearance—to me, in fact, those outstanding men imparted nothing new. 7 But, on the contrary, when they saw that I had entrusted to me the good news for those who are uncircumcised, just as Peter [had it] for those who are circumcised— 8 for He who gave Peter powers necessary for an apostleship to those who are circumcised gave powers also to me for those who are of the nations; 9 yes, when they came to know the undeserved kindness that was given me, James and Ce´phas and John, the ones who seemed to be pillars, gave me and Bar´na•bas the right hand of sharing together, that we should go to the nations, but they to those who are circumcised. 10 Only we should keep the poor in mind. This very thing I have also earnestly endeavored to do. Paul again refused to submit to wrong example of Peter. James seemed unable to even convince his close associates to change some of their behavior in regard to their Gentile brothers even after the council in Jerusalem. 11 However, when Ce´phas came to Antioch, I resisted him face to face, because he stood condemned. 12 Forbefore the arrival of certain men from James, he used to eat with people of the nations; but when they arrived, he went withdrawing and separating himself, in fear of those of the circumcised class. Another example of concern with impression given to Jews. 13 The rest of the Jews also joined him in putting on this pretense, so that even Bar´na•bas was led along with them in their pretense. 14 But when I saw they were not walking straight according to the truth of the good news, I said to Ce´phas before them all: “If you, though you are a Jew, live as the nations do, and not as Jews do, how is it that you are compelling people of the nations to live according to Jewish practice?” WT writes that Paul was a member of the 1st century governing body. They apparently did not meet very often since as far as we know, Paul only met with them twice in over twenty years.

Peter is also viewed as part of this governing body, yet his letters are written from Babylon. That would also seem to be a hindrance to attending governing body meetings in Jerusalem.

Not one letter in the Bible is written collectively and anonymously by a governing body, only individuals were used. When Jesus wanted someone to do something in particular, Jesus contacted them directly.

WT seems to imply that authority of apostles was superseded by governing body: *** w97 5/15 pp. 16-17 Theocratic Administration in the Christian Era ***
6 When Paul came to Jerusalem about the year 56 C.E., he reported to James and, the Bible says, “all the older men were present.” (Acts 21:18 ) Why was there no mention of apostles at this meeting? Again, the Bible does not say. But the historian Eusebius later reported that some time before 66 C.E., “the remaining apostles, in constant danger from murderous plots, were driven out of Judea. But to teach their message they travelled into every land in the power of Christ.” (Eusebius, Book III, V, v. 2) True, Eusebius’ words are not part of the inspired record, but they do harmonize with what that record says. For example, by 62 C.E., Peter was in Babylon—far from Jerusalem. (1 Peter 5:13) Still, in 56 C.E., and likely right up until 66 C.E., a governing body was clearly active in Jerusalem. So I just don’t see much evidence to support the contention that there was a 1st century governing body administering the congregations. Some such arrangement may be appropriate now (although somewhat Pharisaical and proud as portrayed in the literature, IMHO) in view of the fact that we don’t have the benefit of inspiration or direct communication with Jesus or angels, but I don’t really see that is the way it was in the 1st century.

70

You-are-too-dumb: Proper handling of nested magazines (BOE Letter)

by pixel in

to all bodies of elders.

re: proper handling of nested magazines.

dear brothers:.

shadow

how about

70

You-are-too-dumb: Proper handling of nested magazines (BOE Letter)

by pixel in

to all bodies of elders.

re: proper handling of nested magazines.

dear brothers:.

shadow

next time we'll discuss . . .

65

Here is the funeral talk outline. VERY discraceful.

by stillstuckcruz in

this is truly terrible.

i just love the statement "instead of eulogizing the deceased, use the material in this outline to give a fine witness concerning the truth.

" in other words, utterly disregard the deceased.

shadow

Not in KH but Ianelli from Bethel spoke at it so eulogies, salutes, etc. were ok in this case

65

Here is the funeral talk outline. VERY discraceful.

by stillstuckcruz in

this is truly terrible.

i just love the statement "instead of eulogizing the deceased, use the material in this outline to give a fine witness concerning the truth.

" in other words, utterly disregard the deceased.

shadow

Sometimes it's ok to not follow the script . . .

________________________________________________________________________________

Rookie fireman mourned

By Susan Jacobson | Sentinel Staff Writer

Posted August 6, 2002

PHOTOS

Mementos. (ED SACKETT/ORLANDO SENTINEL)

Aug 6, 2002

A spray of red carnations, his firefighters’ hat and photos of Dallas Begg and his family adorn his casket Monday.

(ED SACKETT/ORLANDO SENTINEL)

casket

Somber farewell. (ED SACKETT/ORLANDO SENTINEL)

Aug 6, 2002

Pallbearers from Dallas Begg’s training class Monday carry his casket past saluting comrades, with his family following, as they proceed to his funeral. About 2,700 people paid respects to the Osceola County firefighter.

(ED SACKETT/ORLANDO SENTINEL)

farewell

Procession. (ED SACKETT/ORLANDO SENTINEL)

Aug 6, 2002

Ladder trucks use black bunting Monday to create an arch as the firetruck carrying the remains of Dallas Begg passes on the way to Osceola Memory Gardens, where the firefighter was buried.

(ED SACKETT/ORLANDO SENTINEL)

procession

Dallas Begg.

Jul 31, 2002

KISSIMMEE -- About 2,700 friends, family and fellow firefighters bid farewell Monday to Osceola County rookie Dallas Begg, who died in a training accident last week along with fire Lt. John Mickel.

David Iannelli, a volunteer with the world headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses in New York City, eulogized Begg as someone who made a good name for himself with people and with God.

Two of the things he wanted most were to become a firefighter and win the hand of his sweetheart, Rachel, whom he married in March.

"He was very focused and determined and goal-oriented," Iannelli said. "When he set his mind to something, it generally got done."

Osceola fire Lt. Tracy Stubbs read a letter from Begg's widow, thanking firefighters and the community for their support and expressing a sad camaraderie with Carlotta Mickel, the lieutenant's widow.

The letter also recalled Begg's sense of humor and imagined how pleased and surprised he would have been to see how many people came to say goodbye to him.

"He would say, 'Yeah, I'm the man,' " Stubbs read as some people laughed and others sobbed quietly.

So many people wanted to pay their respects that the 2,100-seat auditorium overflowed and about 600 people listened in another room via loudspeakers.

Mickel's parents and widow attended the service at the former Tupperware auditorium. Mickel's funeral Saturday also drew a huge crowd.

Begg, who would have turned 21 next month, started work July 22 and died eight days later. He and Mickel were the first firefighters to enter an abandoned building where a fire had been lighted to teach search-and-rescue techniques.

Begg's instructor at Central Florida Fire Academy mourned his first student to die in the line of duty.

"We lost a bright, shining star when we lost Dallas," Lawrence MacPhee said. "He had what it took to do the job: heart, desire and the love of being a firefighter."

Flowers and pictures of Begg and his family surrounded his casket, which was draped with a spray of red carnations. On each side was a shadow box containing a shirt from his uniform, drumsticks -- he played in a band -- and other mementos.

Harold Schaitberger, general president of the International Association of Fire Fighters, and Dominick Lanza, president of the Osceola County Professional Firefighters Local 3284, hugged Rachel Begg and presented her with the IAFF's gold medal of honor.

After the service, pallbearers from Begg's training class hoisted the blue casket to their shoulders and slowly left the auditorium. On the way, they paused before Rachel Begg and Osceola fire Chief Don Adams, who escorted her.

Orange County firefighter Eric DePoto trailed the procession holding Begg's yellow firefighter's hat, which was placed on the front seat of Engine 93 on the way to the cemetery.

Bagpipes played, and firefighters from across Florida saluted as the casket was lifted into the back of the engine, which had a black wreath on the front and black swaths of cloth on the sides.

Begg was buried at Osceola Memory Gardens.

Susan Jacobson can be reached at [email protected] or 407-931-5946.

*** g99 2/8 11 Should the Dead Be Honored? *** ABalancedView

Showing honor and respect for dead ones is not always linked to false religious teachings. For instance, a Bible account relates how faithful King Hezekiah was honored after death. God’s people “buried him in the ascent to the burial places of the sons of David; and honor was what all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem rendered to him at his death.” (2 Chronicles 32:33) Another example is that of Jesus. The Bible says that his disciples “took the body of Jesus and bound it up with bandages with the spices, just the way the Jews have the custom of preparing for burial.”—John 19:40.

The Scriptures contain many other cases in which special procedures were followed relative to the body and the burial of dead ones. These practices were not ancestor worship, nor were they based on the mistaken belief that the dead continue to influence the affairs of the living. Rather, the mourners manifested deep respect for those they loved. The Bible does not object to such respect, as it is based on natural human emotions, although the Bible does not endorse lavish or hysterical displays at funerals. On the other hand, it does not encourage Christians to be stoic and impassive when faced with the death of a loved one.

Hence, when they attend the funeral or the burial of their loved ones, Jehovah’s Witnesses render proper respect and honor to the dead. (Ecclesiastes 7:2) When it comes to the matter of flowers, funeral services, and other local customs, Christians make careful personal choices in order to avoid practices that clash with Bible teachings. In this, good judgment and balance are needed. The EncyclopædiaofReligionandEthics explains that “a rite changes its significance and value from time to time, so that the meaning attached to it in later times may be quite different from that which it had originally, and the popular explanation of it may throw no light on its origin.”

Is ItWrongtoEulogize?

The principle of being balanced applies also to the matter of eulogizing the dead. At funeral services, Jehovah’s Witnesses strive to comfort the bereaved. (2 Corinthians 1:3-5) A formal program may include one or more speakers. But it would be inappropriate to convert the occasion into a long parade of eulogizers extolling the deceased. Rather, the funeral affords an opportunity to extol God’s marvelous qualities, including his kindness in providing us with the hope of the resurrection.

This does not mean, however, that it would be wrong to remember the good qualities of the deceased during a funeral discourse. (Compare 2 Samuel 1:17-27.) When the dead one has been faithful to God until death, he or she becomes an excellent example to be imitated. (Hebrews 6:12) It is good to ponder over the integrity-keeping course of God’s servants. Sharing these positive thoughts with others during a funeral service provides comfort to the living and honors the memory of the dead.

True Christians do not worship the dead. They do not engage in popular rites that conflict with Bible truths. On the other hand, God’s servants reject the extreme view that because the dead are merely dust, all funeral customs are purposeless and unnecessary. They mourn and remember their dead. But their pain and sorrow is tempered with the Bible truths that the dead do not suffer and that there is the hope of a resurrection.

42

I am new here and need help...or just a listening ear

by Fallingaway in

my husband and i have two small children, one of which recently became an unbaptised publisher and joined the school.

my husband is an elder and firmly committed to our family and loves me deeply as i love him.

i would like to find a way for all of us to fade away as we have family in the organization that we do not want to lose.

shadow

I have a different perspective.

Most JW's have an unrealistic concept of the "truth", the GB, elders, Bethel, etc. and why wouldn't they? This is the picture painted by the org.

But when we start to see the flaws it dashes the picture we have built up in our minds. I have no doubt that many things are wrong, some of which are very serious. I've read this board for many years and observed many families break up over this. Many others lose faith in God and the Bible leaving them without any hope for the future except rotting in the ground. Others run back to Christendom and happily celebrate all the holidays ASAP.

Sometimes I can hardly contain my revulsion at some of the things being taught and also find it very hard to go in field service. I no longer serve as an elder but still comment selectively. I don't want to break up my family nor lose the faith that remains in me. I also look to the Bible and see that I was stupid to have such high expectations of other humans. True enough that they want us to have that picture but it is a standard that is impossible to achieve. All thru the Bible we read of how bad humans are when they turn into leaders. WT leadership is no exception. So I stay a JW even though I disagree with a number of things and have had my perception of the organization adjusted to be more realistic.

Feel free to PM me if you wish. I refrain from getting into long arguments on here anymore.