sparrowdown, Yeah, I know it should be "O-CLAM," but that didn't sound enough like "CLAN meeting," so I thought the compromise should be "Our CLAM" meeting. But then I remembered that the now-obsolete pamphlet "Our Kingdom Ministry" is still just called "km" or "Kingdom Ministry."
Gilgamesh
JoinedPosts by Gilgamesh
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Our CLAM meeting (vid): SELF-NEGATION is the first "treasure" from first meeting segment
by Gilgamesh inin the first sample video of the clam meeting (christian life and ministry) at about 5 minutes, 50 seconds in, a brother (steven phillips) is assigned the first segment of the new meeting, "treasures from god's word.
" ( http://tv.jw.org/#video/vodstudio/pub-jwbrd_201510_5_video ).
he shows just how sloppy the wts still is at trying to explain the deeper meanings of scriptures.
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Max Larson's archived experience on tv-jw-org includes an AWKWARD statement
by Gilgamesh inthis isn't about anything sordid (or morbid, or reported that knorr did).. it's just that i found an odd-sounding statement in the archived interview that appeared at about 31m20s in the december 2014 monthly tv.jw.org broadcast (or at 4m35s in the stand-alone larson interview also on tv.jw.org).
it seems to reveal an attitude that you'd think would be obsolete about the power of the anointed.
in the attached image, as captioned by tv-jw-org, he said: "every overseer was anointed .
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Gilgamesh
millie21
It's just as odd that C.T.Russell published Watch Towers that referred to the William Miller as "Father Miller." (Miller was the author of the Great Disappointment of 1844 and the greatest prophetic failure in modern history.)
C.T.Russell also continued to maintain all along that 1844 was a date that fulfilled Bible prophecy. He never repudiated that idea even after 1914 came and went.
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STAY ALIVE 'TIL 2132! -- Generation (X′+X″) <= (1914+λ[A′]-α[A′]+λ[A″]-α[A″]-x) <= 2132
by Gilgamesh ingeneration x+x=generation why?
already bringing "great tribulation" on watchtower readers.
the watch tower society has got some splane-ing to do.
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Gilgamesh
I'm glad most people noticed that this was a joke. It was taken a little too seriously in a couple other places where this thing landed.
It's true that if there was another person in exactly the same situation as FWF who also overlapped with him, we could reach 2072 using the Splaine/Watchtower rules embedded in the formula. The less-than-or-equal-to 2132 part is an absolute maximum still using Splane/Watchtower rules.
But I just noticed a person's experience on tv.jw.org named Robert Hatzfeld who could extend the maximum limit 27 years greater than FWF's case. Robert was born in Allegheny, Pittsburgh, PA in 1903, came to Bethel very young and became one of the first to work at radio station WBBR. The video here ( http://tv.jw.org/#video/VODIntExp/pub-jwbiv_201509_1_VIDEO ) says he "served at Bethel for almost 75 years before finishing his earthly course in 2001."
So, plugging his numbers into the formula and assuming there could be another person with his same numbers, we would have the Great Tribulation as late as 2099. (2099 <= 2132) This is only 33 years away from the maximim date of 2132 for the Great Tribulation.
Witnesses.... start your 401(k)'s....
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Our CLAM meeting (vid): SELF-NEGATION is the first "treasure" from first meeting segment
by Gilgamesh inin the first sample video of the clam meeting (christian life and ministry) at about 5 minutes, 50 seconds in, a brother (steven phillips) is assigned the first segment of the new meeting, "treasures from god's word.
" ( http://tv.jw.org/#video/vodstudio/pub-jwbrd_201510_5_video ).
he shows just how sloppy the wts still is at trying to explain the deeper meanings of scriptures.
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Gilgamesh
In the first sample video of the CLAM meeting (Christian Life And Ministry) at about 5 minutes, 50 seconds in, a brother (Steven Phillips) is assigned the first segment of the new meeting, "Treasures from God's Word." ( http://tv.jw.org/#video/VODStudio/pub-jwbrd_201510_5_VIDEO )
He shows just how sloppy the WTS still is at trying to explain the deeper meanings of scriptures. He quotes:
(2 Chronicles 29:27) 27 Then Hez·e·kiʹah said to offer up the burnt sacrifice on the altar; and at the time that the burnt offering started, the song of Jehovah started and also the trumpets, following the direction of the instruments of David the king of Israel.
Then he says:
According to the Insight book this seems to indicate that the trumpeters played in such a manner as to complement the other instruments rather than overshadow them. What an example for hard-working Christians. We work hard, but not in such a way as to draw undue attention to ourselves.
I have a couple problems with this. It's probably a good reminder considering some of the highly egotistical, overbearing elders that some congregations have to put up with. But this theme of self-negation is a very popular one among JWs lately, and it's been tied to giving up higher education and not keeping humble and quiet even if you have education in a certain area and might believe that a decision is the wrong one. A very recent Gilead Graduation talk on tv.jw.org also speaks of the new graduates downplaying their talents. This type of anti-intellectual self-negation can actually be dangerous in that it inadvertently creates even more overbearing, egotistical elders who are thus not to be contradicted even by someone who might know better than them due to education or professional experience.
The other thing is that it's just a pure guess about what might be going on in the context of the verse. The brother doesn't read the context of course, but this is how the following verse reads in the pre-2013 NWT:
(2 Chronicles 29:28) 28 And all the congregation were bowing down while the song was resounding and the trumpets were blaring—all this until the burnt offering was finished.
Granted, the Revised NWT tones down the verse by removing the word "blaring" and replacing it with "sounding" even though the old NWT was perfectly valid. And we all know the nature of blaring trumpets. Yet, evidently this seemed like a good verse for someone to use to make a point about how each Witness should tone it down when it comes to doing anything that might get some attention. No one should get the idea that it was ok to "blow your own trumpet" as the expression goes.
Tying it to the idea that is "problematic" if we work hard or do something exceptional in such a way that it brings attention to ourselves is actually not even a scriptural idea at all:
Prov 22:29 Have you seen a man skillful at his work?
He will stand before kings;
He will not stand before common men.It might seem like a minor point, but it's common to high control groups to try to emphasize that the members are "sheep" even to the point of "sheepishness" when it comes to speaking out against wrong or bad decisions.
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STAY ALIVE 'TIL 2132! -- Generation (X′+X″) <= (1914+λ[A′]-α[A′]+λ[A″]-α[A″]-x) <= 2132
by Gilgamesh ingeneration x+x=generation why?
already bringing "great tribulation" on watchtower readers.
the watch tower society has got some splane-ing to do.
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Gilgamesh
Generation X′+X″=Generation WHY? Already Bringing "Great Tribulation" on Watchtower Readers
The Watch Tower Society has got some “Splane-ing” to do. So they brought out Brother David Splane, hoping to bring some credibility to the incredible.
It is now literally possible to explain the potential length of the “overlapping generation” with a formula like the following one where X′ and X″ represent two different (overlapping) groups of anointed persons.
Generation (X′+X″) <= 1914+λ[A′]-α[A′]+λ[A″]-α[A″]-x
This formula is applicable where A′ and A″ are symbols referring to anointed persons qualified to be in group one and two, respectively. λ[A′] (lambda of A′) refers to the lifespan of the person in the first group, and α[A′] (alpha of A′) refers to the age at which A′ is said to have been anointed. A person qualifying for inclusion in the second group (A″), must not only be born, but must already be anointed, in or before the year A′ dies. We must also consider the following two limiting factors: First, the maximum length of a lifespan (λ) usually put in a range from 99 to 119 years. Second, the minimum age at which one may be considered to be anointed (α), put in a range from 10 to 20 years. And, finally, we must subtract x, the number of full years that the lifespan of A′ overlapped with A″. If A″ happened to be born in the same year that A′ died, then this x=0.
You’ll get your due in 2072!
If we plug in the information for FWF (Frederick W Franz) as a case that fits the first group of anointed, we would get:
Generation (X′+X″) <= 1914+99-20+λ[A″]-α[A″]
We would now only need to assume a lifespan and an age of anointing for a person who qualifies to be in the second group. If we also assume that A″ also has a lifespan of 99 years and also has an anointing age of 20, and was born in 1992, then the formula could be filled in as follows:
Generation (X′+X″) <= 1914+99-20+99-20 = 2072. Therefore, the overlapping generation could reach as far into the future as 2072.
2132: It’s around the corner, too!
Of course, we could also assume that FWF was not the ideal candidate to maximize the length of the generation. Perhaps there was a person, born in 1904, and anointed at 10 years old who also lived to be 119 years old. It doesn’t seem likely, of course, but it’s potentially possible. Perhaps it’s even more possible in the second group when medical advances of the 21st century might increase more lifespans toward and perhaps beyond the 119 year limit.
We could then, plug in our maximized examples for both groups and get the following numbers in our formula
Generation (X′+X″) <= 1914+119-10+119-10 = 2132. Therefore, the overlapping generation could reach as far into the future as the year 2132!
How ONE generation has become TEN generations.
Imagine! This means that “this generation” could potentially include, in my own case, my great grandfather, who was actually a co-worker with Russell in 1914, my grandfather (deceased), my father (living), myself, my children, my first grandchild (due in December 2015), my future great-grandchild (2040?), my great-great-grandchild (2065?), my great-great-great-grandchild (2090?), my great-great-great-great-grandchild (2115?). That’s TEN generations in all!
Can you imagine? When Jesus said “this generation will not pass away” that could have meant the same thing as if he had said “TEN generations will not pass away.”
Legitimate?
Of course, there are also ways to evaluate this from a Biblical perspective. We can discuss, for example:
(Deuteronomy 23:2) “No illegitimate son may come into the congregation of Jehovah. Even to the tenth generation, none of his descendants may come into the congregation of Jehovah.”
If 1 can equal 10, perhaps this actually meant 100 generations!
Poor bastards!
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Max Larson's archived experience on tv-jw-org includes an AWKWARD statement
by Gilgamesh inthis isn't about anything sordid (or morbid, or reported that knorr did).. it's just that i found an odd-sounding statement in the archived interview that appeared at about 31m20s in the december 2014 monthly tv.jw.org broadcast (or at 4m35s in the stand-alone larson interview also on tv.jw.org).
it seems to reveal an attitude that you'd think would be obsolete about the power of the anointed.
in the attached image, as captioned by tv-jw-org, he said: "every overseer was anointed .
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Gilgamesh
When I watched the video it was hard to believe that anyone would call JFR, "Pappy." But Knorr called him "Pappy." I remember at Bethel, you sometimes heard Knorr referred to as "Pappy Knorr." I can't see how anyone would give either of them such a nickname based on their natural personalities. Seems like a nickname they wanted to be called. -
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Max Larson's archived experience on tv-jw-org includes an AWKWARD statement
by Gilgamesh inthis isn't about anything sordid (or morbid, or reported that knorr did).. it's just that i found an odd-sounding statement in the archived interview that appeared at about 31m20s in the december 2014 monthly tv.jw.org broadcast (or at 4m35s in the stand-alone larson interview also on tv.jw.org).
it seems to reveal an attitude that you'd think would be obsolete about the power of the anointed.
in the attached image, as captioned by tv-jw-org, he said: "every overseer was anointed .
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Gilgamesh
"Pinky And The Brain" episodes were famous, of course, for exchanges like the following:
Brain: Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?
Pinky: "I think so, Brain... but how would we ever determine Sandra Bullock's shoe size?"
Brain: . . . [frustrated by Pinky's stupidity] . . .
and, later. . .
Pinky: Gee, Brain, what do you want to do tonight?
Brain: The same thing we do every night, Pinky - try to take over the world!
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Max Larson's archived experience on tv-jw-org includes an AWKWARD statement
by Gilgamesh inthis isn't about anything sordid (or morbid, or reported that knorr did).. it's just that i found an odd-sounding statement in the archived interview that appeared at about 31m20s in the december 2014 monthly tv.jw.org broadcast (or at 4m35s in the stand-alone larson interview also on tv.jw.org).
it seems to reveal an attitude that you'd think would be obsolete about the power of the anointed.
in the attached image, as captioned by tv-jw-org, he said: "every overseer was anointed .
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Gilgamesh
This isn't about anything sordid (or morbid, or reported that Knorr did).
It's just that I found an odd-sounding statement in the archived interview that appeared at about 31m20s in the December 2014 monthly tv.jw.org broadcast (or at 4m35s in the stand-alone Larson interview also on tv.jw.org). It seems to reveal an attitude that you'd think would be obsolete about the power of the anointed. In the attached image, as captioned by tv-jw-org, he said: "every overseer was anointed . . . I got to appreciate the depth of the anointed, the power they had."
It was interesting to me for another reason. I've heard Larson use the expression "This is the Kingdom" in the way we used to use the expression "This is the New World Society" back around the 1950's and 1960's. In fact, I thought I remembered him saying it in the same interview, which is why I just went back to listen to it. I doubt it was edited out, so I must have seen it elsewhere. But I've also heard him in person speak of the Society as if it was equal to the Kingdom.
I believe that this idea about the "power of the anointed" is also related to the way he saw Knorr as if he were a king ruling a kingdom on earth. In fact, I believe this attitude had a lot to do with Larson's quick rise to power when he took over for Knorr at the factory, when JFR died. After having the job for a year and a half, Knorr told Larson: "Max, I'll have to stay over at 124 and take care of the world . . . you take the factory."
After reminding of several episodes of a cartoon called, "Pinky and the Brain," it also reminded me of: “You men already have your fill, do you? You are rich already, are you? You have begun ruling as kings without us, have you?” (1 Cor. 4:8)
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Watch Tower Society owns web domains: www.MT2414.com and www.PS8318.com
by Gilgamesh in(my apologies if this was already discussed somewhere else.).
i noticed that the domain www.mt2414.com was taken, and when i tested it, it was a mirror of the log in portion of the www.jw.org site, where you can look up assemblies, kingdom halls, and make either one time or recurring donations.
so i created an account there (you can use fake form information as long as it's a real email address for email verification).
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Gilgamesh
I thought Proverbs 27:11 was a joke too, especially when you look at the next verse and realize they already have Matthew 10:16 where is says to be "shrewd as snakes." (NIV)
(Proverbs 27:11, 12) 11 Be wise, my son, and make my heart rejoice, So that I can make a reply to him who taunts me. 12 The shrewd person sees the danger and conceals himself, But the inexperienced keep right on going and suffer the consequences.
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Watch Tower Society owns web domains: www.MT2414.com and www.PS8318.com
by Gilgamesh in(my apologies if this was already discussed somewhere else.).
i noticed that the domain www.mt2414.com was taken, and when i tested it, it was a mirror of the log in portion of the www.jw.org site, where you can look up assemblies, kingdom halls, and make either one time or recurring donations.
so i created an account there (you can use fake form information as long as it's a real email address for email verification).
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Gilgamesh
I certainly would not pass it on to them. The Russian gov't gets enough goading from US religious interests to get them to crack down on gays rights, civil rights and religious rights. I would also bet that there are already enough "specialists" in Russia and Ukraine to have known this almost as soon as traffic started building up on these sites a few months ago. Amazon, whose servers they are using, probably knows already, too.
