Posts by waiting

20

Reasons for becoming a JW?

by Dubby in

jw
friends

i'm curious about the reasons for becoming a jw.

if you were raised a jw, were you pressured into baptism?

if you weren't raised a jw, what were the deciding factors?

waiting

Well, ok. My Reaons for Becoming one of Jehovah's Witnesses:

I was 18, fresh out of 12 years in a Catholic school. I had a horrible upbringing in my home, at least part of the time. I started dating this really rebellious hippie guy (my parents hated him - thus we became a "thing" fast).

I called this hippie guy one Sunday afternoon and he said he was going to be busy during a Bible study. Yeah, right. Come see for yourself. I will. I did.

I asked the conductor if there was a hell fire, he said no, and I was hooked, as I really believed I was going to Hell.

And the rest is history. Four different persons studied with me - I was considered a "difficult study." I don't know why.....I studied for 3 years. But like you, I did no independent research. I really wasn't that interested. I was 18, for Pete's sake!

I was looking for answers and I was looking for a new family and I was looking for security and I was afraid of Hell. I thought I had found the Truth. Oh, well. Back to the drawing board.

15

new light is on the way...

by mgm in

jw
friends

please read the article:.

http://www.the-times.co.uk/news/pages/tim/2000/06/14/timfgnusa01004.html.

mgm

waiting

Hey, Simon!

If you've been following Friend's posts, "some" of us use circular arguments.

All of the above quotes are circular, aren't they?

And there is no way to reason, even respond!!!It's so maddening!!!!

"You cannot underestimate the intelligence of the American people." HL Mencken

And that's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.

44

-WORDS-

by Frenchy in

jw
friends

the views expressed here are my own and i state them as such.

perhaps some will agree with me, for a certainty others will not.

i invite comment and discussion regardless of your viewpoint.

waiting

Frenchy,

I truly am surprised that any witnesses came to the funeral of a disfellowshipped person - no matter the pain almost killed the old woman.
After all, principles are at stake - damn the heart.

On another website, there is an article about a JW family whose very young daughter needed a blood transfusion. Court order was given - the child lived - for about 4 more years. The father, and perhaps mother were disfellowshipped. When their daughter finally died, no one from the Kingdom Hall came. What could they say to the grieving parents? They were dead in their eyes.

I know the cases are not the same, but similar. We can be so cruel to the grieving heart.

Dear Red Horse, I've seen you talk about your mother before, and you're right about generic funeral talks. But we're a generic religion, right? Go ride your horses and forget for a while.

Edited by - waiting on 14 June 2000 22:10:41

15

new light is on the way...

by mgm in

jw
friends

please read the article:.

http://www.the-times.co.uk/news/pages/tim/2000/06/14/timfgnusa01004.html.

mgm

waiting

Hey, Andy,

We must not have much to do right now, huh? Weird talking (well, typing, so close in time sequence).

One of the brothers I talked to is very righteous. The other my age, just not as sarcastic as I am. I said that things were in a flux, and things have changed before. "Not biblical truths!"

So then I shared my information about vaccinations because the burning on the child's arm instead of the vaccine was done to my husband. The young brother wouldn't believe me. Thankfully, the older brother was here to back me up. Of course, they tried to justify the vaccine thing - blood, etc. I brought up how we, even in the '70's would not accept tetnus (?) shots. He had never heard of that before either.

The younger generation is even in the dark about the 70's and 80's. Reminds me of the quote I read somewhere:

He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the future, controls the present.

Would Friend consider this a circular argument? But when he kept reminding me that I used circular arguments - it occurred to me that that is how I have been taught by the Society.

6

A Lie, Insight Book or Webster's Dictionary?

by waiting in

jw
friends

insight book, page 244-245: "lie.

the opposite of truth.

lying generally involves saying something false to a person who is entitled to know the truth and doing so with the intent to deceive or to injure him or another person.

waiting

Hey, Frenchy,

Today, in our store - believe it or not - a young brother brought up this type of a lie, and that it was talked about in a recent Watchtower article. I said I had looked it up in the Insight book, but he said he didn't know about that - but the Watchtower said the same thing.

We, as Christians, could lie, if we felt that those we were lying to were not entitled to a true statement. Naturally, I jumped in for retort! (we've tangled before) Another brother was there also and he was trying to make light of the situation. The young brother kept saying that, "well......if you're in Russia" I asked him if the Watchtower qualified their lying statement to only those times of "Theocratic Warfare?" He said no. I asked did they qualify their lying definition at all. He said no. I asked him then why was he qualifying what the Society had stated. (he doesn't like to argue with me....I don't know why....the piglet.) He said he didn't want to talk about it anymore.

The Society has given, and apparently regiven, their unqualified definition on lying - and it ain't Webster's. More PR so that they can justify what they're submitting to foreign governments (and JW's) about blood, disfellowshipping, disociating, etc. Theocratic Warefare........

Edited by - waiting on 14 June 2000 19:6:24

19

Donations for Literature?

by Andyman in

jw
friends

i know that there is a variety of posters here from different places.

i have seen some from canada, the u.s., and australia, and england.

so i wanted to ask about the "donation" arrangement for literature.. somebody in another thread mentioned the "double" payment thing.

waiting

Man, I hate to sound like Friend, but here goes:

1. I run a business. I pay for labor (WTBTS doesn't), buildings, furnishings, equipment, vehicles, taxes (WTBTS doesn't), materials, insurance, medical and medicines on the non-paid employees (WTBTS does, I don't) insurance on old pioneers (one in our family, WTBTS does) repairs, lawyers (WTBTS has lots of 'em), food, animals for food (WTBTS I think still does have the farm?) and so many other that they are almost countless.

Yes, I believe they are a profitable business - but come on, they have a tremendous amount of expenses also. Look what they have to pay for good PR coverage!

Edited by - waiting on 14 June 2000 18:51:49

15

new light is on the way...

by mgm in

jw
friends

please read the article:.

http://www.the-times.co.uk/news/pages/tim/2000/06/14/timfgnusa01004.html.

mgm

waiting

We have a store, today near closing time, several employees - all strong JW's (except me...) were talking. They brought up the issue of religion, as always, because they think I'm falling away.

I had printed out the Times article, but did not have it in front of me. But I quoted it - especially the paragraph printed above. They refused to believe me "the Society would never change the blood policy - founded in the Bible, etc. etc."

"Where did you read this?" Times religious article. "Oh, that explains it - they're always lying about us." Who is they?, I asked. "Everybody." Really? They were quoting the English overseers - not just elders, and no one has said that they lied. "Well, you can't believe anything anybody writes about us. I will never take blood," (etc. etc. etc.)

Do you want to see the article? It has the name of the English overseers the article is quoting. It's in my car - I'll go get it for you. "No, we don't want to read it." Case, and mind, closed.

I agree with the above, the rank and file will never agree to take blood unless it is written in a major study article - several times. That is, unless they're in a major accident or such - then we tend to reconsider our options in a hurry.

I also agree, based upon this discussion I just had - we tend to be a very opinionated, closed minded group believing only what the Society tells us to believe.

And by the way, these two brothers felt that anyone who dared take blood should be disfellowshipped or dissociated. And were very righteous when saying this.

It's so strange to stand back and look into our group.

15

new light is on the way...

by mgm in

jw
friends

please read the article:.

http://www.the-times.co.uk/news/pages/tim/2000/06/14/timfgnusa01004.html.

mgm

waiting

This is not new light.

"Paul Gillies, spokesman for the Jehovah's Witnesses, who have their British headquarters in Mill Hill, North London, said that not taking blood was still a "core value" of the religion. "It is quite possible that someone who was under pressure on an operating table would take a blood transfusion because they did not want to die. The next day they might say they regretted this decision. We would then give them spiritual comfort and help. No action would be taken against them. We would just view it as a moment of weakness." He said that even if the Jehovah's Witness did not repent,they would not be expelled but would merely be viewed as having "dissociated" themselves from the religion."

Again, this is not new light, not even double talk. If this reporter has the quotes right, this is bull crap.

Edited by - waiting on 14 June 2000 18:23:41

19

Donations for Literature?

by Andyman in

jw
friends

i know that there is a variety of posters here from different places.

i have seen some from canada, the u.s., and australia, and england.

so i wanted to ask about the "donation" arrangement for literature.. somebody in another thread mentioned the "double" payment thing.

waiting

Hey, y'all,

Here in the South, USA, same set up - and we are periodically reminded of our conscientious duty as Christian Jehovah's Witnesses to do what we can afford, as the KM quoted articled sets forth for us.

I really think the older ones take the brunt of the payment at the KH - at least they say so. Get some old sisters together and they go on and on and on......about how they are always careful to "donate" for their magazines when getting them from mag. counter - lest we should forget."

And several times, experiences have been given from the platform or people raising their hand (the darndest thing I've ever heard) about strangers donating $10.00 (or so) and "I promptly put it in the World Wide Preaching Contribution box." AND EVERYBODY CLAPPED like something wonderful had been done!!!!

We have had it announced from the Society that payment for literature is down (not all people are always going to cover their cost - human nature). But was the Society making money before the contribution system was put in place? If so, then by us paying for the magazines, and by asking for donations from strangers, I would think, in my opinion, that their costs are "adequately" covered.

If they were profiting from literature sales before the contribution system, perhaps they are profiting a bit less now? Could that be their problem?

17

Conscience Issues?

by Andyman in

jw
friends

ok frenchy, you asked for it you got it!.

my pet issue is the conscience thing.

just whos' conscience are they talking about when they us this phrase "it's a conscience issue"?.

waiting

Hey, again,

"Why cannot people learn to speak the truth? I have, I think, taught two, perhaps three, Indian colleagues to do so. It will probably wreck their careers." JBS Haldane

"Nationalism means that every little group of human twerps with its own slang, haircut and pet name for God should have a country." PJ O'Rourke

Was I the one who said I had the secret fantasy of being a Democrat?

Hypocrite - Gurl, you ain't ol' 'nouph ta know 'bout critin'!

Edited by - waiting on 13 June 2000 22:5:24