Posts by Monsieur

169

The "Tree of Life and its meaning"

by EdenOne in

jw
friends

hi all.. just letting know that i've published a new article on my website, titled "the tree of life and its meaning".. you're welcome to visit, read and discuss it.. eden.

Monsieur

cofty wrote -

"I think that's a very pessimistic assessment of humanity."

I would argue that it is a very REALISTIC assesment of humanity. Hence, it was and is so easy to bundle man into evolution theory.

Don't get me wrong cofty, I acknowledge the various statistics you've presented, all of which are true. The problem is, there is STILL too much violence and hatred emanating and originating from man. The threat of mass anhilition is very real and much more possible today than yesterday.

If even ONE murder has befallen on an innocent (or not) individual, is it really possible to say "This is progress"? From that individual's perspective it is catastrophic, so what makes that situation better for us? That it didn't happen to us?

I imagine the pain felt by an afflicted mother in Syria or the Congo, or hell, right here carries just as much weight as a thousand afflicted mothers.

If we don't see it this way then we are seeing only statistics in my opinion.

54

Planning exit, alternative venues to preach?

by Goodstein in

background:.

i've come to the conclusion that many doctrines of the wts are unscriptural after many years of privately disagreeing with some of them but feeling that the society was "mostly right" and still being used by jehovah.

this turning point has happened in the last year or so.

Monsieur

jgnat wrote - "Here's a zinger I gave my husband. That week there was talk of the apostacy that the Greek philosophers introduced to Christendom, so hubby was parroting it. It just so happened that I was working through Plato's Republic, and I got to the part that talked about heaven. I quoted it to him. I asked it if it sounded familar (Paul's transport to the second heaven). I then pointed out that Plato had written his account a couple hundred years before Paul. So who copied who?"

I've come to debate this type of question with myself.

In fact, if you get down to the nitty gritty of the teachings regarding the annointed (and this is from a purely Scripturally point, NOT so much JW interpretation) there are many similarities with it to 'standard' philosophy.

That all humans have the capacity to become or reach a higher 'state' of being or existence thru shedding the corporal shell of their physical bodies. To ultimately become god-like or God himself.

The teachings of Paul fall neatly into this 'philosphy'. Interestingly jgnat, Paul also referred to Christ as being the key to the 'real' philosphy, hidden from man for centuries, but revealed in Christ. In other words, to get a shot at REALLY reaching a god-like state (eternal and immortal) one must do it through that path of Christ, not Plato or Socrates etc. So Paul in many ways DOES refer to Plato for example, but only to rebute his teachings in favor of Christ's.

Paul's claims are one of many elements that are factoring (or hoping) into discovering an 'Absolute' truth that answers all my personal questions regarding the 'state' of man and its real raison d'etre so to speak.

27

Does fear of death equate to need for God?

by Monsieur in

read a very interesting opinion article on cnn last night.

"why i raise my kids without god".. .

the writer aluded to the fear of the possibility of one's life ending forever (along with our beloved children's).

Monsieur

robcrompton, No difference that I can honestly think of. Because even after becoming concsious of our existence in life, in death (supposedly) we can not be conscious.

27

Does fear of death equate to need for God?

by Monsieur in

read a very interesting opinion article on cnn last night.

"why i raise my kids without god".. .

the writer aluded to the fear of the possibility of one's life ending forever (along with our beloved children's).

Monsieur

Read a very interesting opinion article on CNN last night. "Why I raise my kids without God".

The writer aluded to the fear of the possibility of one's life ending forever (along with our beloved children's). Thus, necessitating God whom embodies the concept of life and eternity. Those of us who believe in God (real or not) can psychologically cope with death in other words.

That fear of absolute 'finality', is it really predominant? For those who are atheists, how have you come to accept non-existence?

169

The "Tree of Life and its meaning"

by EdenOne in

jw
friends

hi all.. just letting know that i've published a new article on my website, titled "the tree of life and its meaning".. you're welcome to visit, read and discuss it.. eden.

Monsieur

cofty wrote - "But there is always a reason why people make bad moral choices. Its always rooted somewhere in nature or nurture.

You have simply evaded the question"

I too believe (stress 'believe' as I don't have the absolute answer, but it MUST exist somehow) that for every action there is a reaction. And that every 'occurrence' must have a spark/push/motive even, to catapult it, so to speak, into action.

Is is a fact that people that believe in God (as I do) also believe that God has absolute control and power over all things. In this case, the reasoning is that God removed himself from interfering with Satan so as to allow free will.

My problem with this reasoning though is this-

1)the consequences of this 'reality' are incredibly horrendous, BUT not for all of man. It is an absolute injustice that some must suffer terrible fear and death while others simply die a peacefull death in sleep in old age.

2) it seems pretty clear that man as a whole mimics too awfully close the 'law of the beast', as in, it's a dog eat dog world, survival of the fittest, etc. Wether this is a reflection on evolution is another matter, but facts are facts, and man destroys man for its own advancement/surviva. Thus, is man simply another element of creation, born to die? as any animal or plant or living thing?

Is that what it amounts to?

36

Greetings

by Monsieur in

jw
friends

i visit this site often for various reasons, above all to see the opinions of those in regards to their present state in life in relation to past or present tendencies in thinking (religious, morals, etc).. i had not found anything constructive or worthy of adding to this conversation but for one reason or another here i am doing so now.

i am presently an active jw member.

i believe that our faith provides a haven or parameters from which members can significantly obtain structure and order in many different ways.

Monsieur

jgnat, thank your for the recommendation,

you are so kind! a pleasure interacting with you.

36

Greetings

by Monsieur in

jw
friends

i visit this site often for various reasons, above all to see the opinions of those in regards to their present state in life in relation to past or present tendencies in thinking (religious, morals, etc).. i had not found anything constructive or worthy of adding to this conversation but for one reason or another here i am doing so now.

i am presently an active jw member.

i believe that our faith provides a haven or parameters from which members can significantly obtain structure and order in many different ways.

Monsieur

greetings rebel8

in regards to the religion, there are members that NEED to have a place of worship (kingdom hall), need prayer, need to relate with others of like mindedness through meetings, moved by their faith they can find themselves needing to preach to others regarding their beliefs.

i suppose they could go out and do this on their own but chose to do this within the structure of this faith. eventually some come to relate this structure, consitency and/or familiarity with their own comfort. This is typical of the human mind or it is human nature to associate similar elements with one's own ideals or preoccupations.

i imagine that in ANY religion its members derive a peace of mind of sorts in transferring worries like mine onto God and leaving them be. But as I've written, this has stopped working for me.

36

Greetings

by Monsieur in

jw
friends

i visit this site often for various reasons, above all to see the opinions of those in regards to their present state in life in relation to past or present tendencies in thinking (religious, morals, etc).. i had not found anything constructive or worthy of adding to this conversation but for one reason or another here i am doing so now.

i am presently an active jw member.

i believe that our faith provides a haven or parameters from which members can significantly obtain structure and order in many different ways.

Monsieur

xianthippe, thanks for guiding me to this opportunity with AI, i will most definitely look into this.

OM, thanks for going out of your way in using 'tasteful' language! In regards to Flipper's advise (don't get me wrong, i appreciate the spirit of it) i feel that it is no longer something I can do. I've crossed a threshold that doesn't allow me to simply ignore 'reality'. Pretending as though my world is only as wide as a 30mile radius from my constant position sounds, frankly, unintelligent.

To me, it's the same as saying, 'just look the other way'. Granted, I realize that our limitations (physical) make it impossible to solve this 'state' of man. But I am beginning to believe deeply in the verse "Knowledge is power", and fully comprehending this mother of a WHY has to provide resolution. I believe my God owes us humans this much.

36

Greetings

by Monsieur in

jw
friends

i visit this site often for various reasons, above all to see the opinions of those in regards to their present state in life in relation to past or present tendencies in thinking (religious, morals, etc).. i had not found anything constructive or worthy of adding to this conversation but for one reason or another here i am doing so now.

i am presently an active jw member.

i believe that our faith provides a haven or parameters from which members can significantly obtain structure and order in many different ways.

Monsieur

hello jgnat,

thank you for interacting with me, i sense we have similar sensibilities. and thank you for sharing the links with me as well.

abiblestudent,

not to argue with your honest 'take' on the subject, but God not 'approving' doesn't really add up to anything anymore. i too had a strong attachment to your ideas regarding God's interventions or lack thereof. Yet how ironic that as a jw my 'beef' isn't with some organization or some group of men, rather it's with God.

Because ultimately man is almost totally useless in his desire and effort to 'build up and mend'. Yet it was God who created Earth and put man in it. I feel that somewhere along the way the idea of 'accountability' became lost on God. If EArth was a trully and simply a 'test', I don't believe (or I'm having an incredibly difficult time accepting) that witnessing the sorry and violent effects of man's hatred was suppose to feel this terrible, much less experiencing it. Besides, for whom is this 'testing' going on? Those that are simply witnessing the misfortune, surviving it? Where is the sense of justice in that? If this is so, than we trully are not equal, though we be all human.

Did God really decide who would be tested and who would be the victim of such 'test'?

36

Greetings

by Monsieur in

jw
friends

i visit this site often for various reasons, above all to see the opinions of those in regards to their present state in life in relation to past or present tendencies in thinking (religious, morals, etc).. i had not found anything constructive or worthy of adding to this conversation but for one reason or another here i am doing so now.

i am presently an active jw member.

i believe that our faith provides a haven or parameters from which members can significantly obtain structure and order in many different ways.

Monsieur

thanks, i'll look into it.

someone asked about the mormons. i know nothing of the mormons' but i'm sure, as the witnesses, there are those that find comfort in its structure. as to the mind control claims, i could say, 'yeah sure, you can call it that or anything you want it to. but it doesn't really matter when you look at the reality of the 'state' that man finds himself in.

i can only trust God by virtue of being cognizant of Him, which requires me to be alive, right? if i'm not alive, and not able to react to Him, does it take away from some bigger agenda or mission He seeks to accomplish? yet, i think these thoughts which give importance to MY self, and something is beginning to tell me that I or WE are perhaps not that important after all. At least not as individuals.