Posts by Saintbertholdt

29

Why do people kill each other?

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

why do there have to be wars?

why is there so much hatred?.

the collective answer i came up with is natalisam, or maybe the correct word should be politics?

Saintbertholdt

Too late... we already did that

Well I guess its on to Homo sapien sapien sapien then.

212

Why Do You No Longer Believe in God?

by Tenacious in

i know this question has popped up from time to time but i really would like to know how you guys, those that no longer believe, came to that conclusion?

was it the wts and all its crap?

was it something you read?

Saintbertholdt

I don't think God exists... yet.

See: The law of accelerated returns

29

Why do people kill each other?

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

why do there have to be wars?

why is there so much hatred?.

the collective answer i came up with is natalisam, or maybe the correct word should be politics?

Saintbertholdt

Why do there have to be wars? Why is there so much hatred?

Syme gave a good answer:

"Archaeology and paleoanthropology show that violence was much more prevalent in prehistorical bands and groups, than it is today."

Yeah we're barely out of caves and the impulse to club thy neighbor is still alive and well within each human.

But I think we're getting more civilized... very very slowly. One day we'll graduate from homo sapien to homo sapien sapien. And when we're all nice and civilized and we practice war no more, an alien race will come along and enslave the lot of us... snicker.

19

And China's version of the Nobel prize goes to ... Robert Mugabe! WTF?!

by LoveUniHateExams in

according to the guardian, the confucius peace prize has been awarded this year to one robert gabriel mugabe.

yes, you read that right.

i suppose i could've put this thread in either the entertainment section or joke section instead.

Saintbertholdt

Oh hahahahahahahahahaha... my sides.

I guess his nomination could not have anything to do with the $1 Billion thermal power contract Bob signed with China:

http://mgafrica.com/article/2015-07-24-zimbabwe-company-inks-11bn-thermal-power-deal-with-china

or the $1.9 Billion contract signed with China for housing construction:

http://constructionreviewonline.com/2015/05/zimbabwe-signs-us1-9bn-housing-project/

Naaaaaaaa...

21

When did the Watchtower start opposing evolution with respect to animals?

by slimboyfat in

the photo-drama of creation (1912) says that god directed the evolution of animals into their current "fixed" forms, but that humans were created directed.

the divine plan of the ages said the same thing.

(various editions late 1800s to early 1900s) the 1898 booklet on evolution opposes the evolution of man but doesn't discuss animal evolution.

Saintbertholdt

slimboyfat,

...and the earliest refutation I can find so far is 1950.

Which source does it come from? The 1950 booklet "Evolution versus the New World"?

22

Online Watchtower publications archives?

by slimboyfat in

years ago i remember there being a number of sites with pretty extensive archives of watchtower publications online.

can anyone direct me to the best current site for this material?

in particular i am looking for a booklet from 1898 called "the bible vs. the theory of evolution".

Saintbertholdt

strictlygenteel.co.uk

21

When did the Watchtower start opposing evolution with respect to animals?

by slimboyfat in

the photo-drama of creation (1912) says that god directed the evolution of animals into their current "fixed" forms, but that humans were created directed.

the divine plan of the ages said the same thing.

(various editions late 1800s to early 1900s) the 1898 booklet on evolution opposes the evolution of man but doesn't discuss animal evolution.

Saintbertholdt

Hi notsurewheretogo,

I left out the sentence just before:"The conflict between Evolution and the Bible has been sharp. Nevertheless, unnecessary friction has been generated.,Only in respect to man does the Bible declare a special,direct creation of God. The statements of Genesis in respect to the lower creatures rather favor something along the lines of specialized Evolution."

This sounds much much broader than what dubs refer to today as "adaptive evolution" within a species.

21

When did the Watchtower start opposing evolution with respect to animals?

by slimboyfat in

the photo-drama of creation (1912) says that god directed the evolution of animals into their current "fixed" forms, but that humans were created directed.

the divine plan of the ages said the same thing.

(various editions late 1800s to early 1900s) the 1898 booklet on evolution opposes the evolution of man but doesn't discuss animal evolution.

Saintbertholdt

The Jan 1885 wt p.7 describes evolution as a device of Satan.

Fascinating. P6 of the Photodrama of creation: "Only in respect to man does the Bible declare a special,direct creation of God. The statements of Genesis in respect to the lower creatures rather favor something along the lines of specialized Evolution."

So what happened? Did Russell have a change of heart?

17

My mom

by cognac in

jw
friends

i was just talking to my mom a few weeks ago.

she said, out of all her kids, i was the only one she didn't have to worry about as far as spirituality.

i always took a stand for jehovah.. she told when all of her kids were little, she gave us the option of not eating birthday cakes in school.

Saintbertholdt

Hi there Cognac,

I think you handled the situation very well.

Maybe at some point in the future she might approach you for some information.

21

When did the Watchtower start opposing evolution with respect to animals?

by slimboyfat in

the photo-drama of creation (1912) says that god directed the evolution of animals into their current "fixed" forms, but that humans were created directed.

the divine plan of the ages said the same thing.

(various editions late 1800s to early 1900s) the 1898 booklet on evolution opposes the evolution of man but doesn't discuss animal evolution.

Saintbertholdt

Hi Slimboyfat,

P6 of the Photodrama of creation:

"The Darwinian theory has disappointed those who swallowed it without a sufficiency of demonstration as to its truth. - (1 Timothy 6:20) Recent demonstrations show that every mixture of species and kind, even where partly successful means a reversion to the original standards within the third or fourth generation in plants, flowers, fruits and in animals. The correct thought would seem to be that under Divine supervision various orders of creation were brought to a state of development and a fixity of species, not to be turned aside nor thereafter altered."

Russell seems to be saying the evolution occurred up until a specific point in time and then stopped. As you pointed out he viewed mankind as a separate creation.

By 1927 J F Rutherford specifically states that the whole creation (excluding the stars and planets) only took 49 thousand years (this period refers to the "preparation" of earth) - Reference the Book called Creation 1927. Rutherford seems to give latitude to the idea that some animal evolution could have happened. He keeps to Russell's idea that human kind was a separate creation.

Here's where the problem comes in. Because of the 49 000 year limitation and because evolutionary timelines were becoming more clearly defined showing that much longer periods were involved, it seems as if the Watchtower organization had to abandon the position totally.

So between 1927 (Creation book) and 1967 (Did Man Get Here by Evolution or by Creation?) it seems as if evolution was discarded. I would say it probably also happened after Rutherford died in 1942.

I hope somebody else can narrow it down further.