Posts by Saintbertholdt

4

Truth light and Truth Express could just lead back to Truth v1.0

by Saintbertholdt in

truth light and truth express could just lead back to truth v1.0.

the following is just shooting the breeze, so take the following with a tablespoon of salt:.

i've been thinking about the "something interesting!

Saintbertholdt

Hi Edenone, nicoulaou and _Morpheus,

Edenone I have a totally different versioning method than yourself:

0.5 - Release Russell - Conditional immortality, Unitarianism and 1914 Armageddon.

0.70 - Release Rutherford - Organizational focus and legally establishing the blah blah. 1914 bug workaround . Major Pyramid bug removed. Some new bugs introduced (1925,1935, 1941)

0.90 - Release Knorr - Last of old buggy beliefs removed (Aluminum hatred, Inoculations etc.). New no-blood feature.

0.95 - Release Franz - 1975 bug introduced but removed with a patch. Fixed date setting is now regarded as the known cause of fatal system errors.

1.00 - Release Henschel - Attempt at 1914 generation bug. Still needs work. No-blood feature causes crashes but workarounds are implemented. First stable release.

1.05 - 2.00 - Release Adams - Attempt at a major upgrade on the 1914 generation. New desktop and widgets. Developers are running low on funds.

Nicolaou,

Dead horses never benefit from flogging..

... but v1.0 was the last stable release.

_Morpheus

Saint, i think your missing the obvious, the first rule of power: those that have it never want to give it up.

I was actually thinking that it may be a way to keep them from losing their power.

New Coke vs. Classic Coke. They had to scrap New Coke in the end.

...

But this is just shooting the breeze anyway :)

4

Truth light and Truth Express could just lead back to Truth v1.0

by Saintbertholdt in

truth light and truth express could just lead back to truth v1.0.

the following is just shooting the breeze, so take the following with a tablespoon of salt:.

i've been thinking about the "something interesting!

Saintbertholdt

Truth light and Truth Express could just lead back to Truth v1.0

The following is just shooting the breeze, so take the following with a tablespoon of salt:

I've been thinking about the "Something interesting!" thread started by John Aquila where he posted the observation and personal experience that currently an old guard is slowly forming within the Watchtower organization, essentially a fifth column. The membership is currently restricted to older senior witnesses who obviously remember how things used to be and who don't really like the technological/dumbed down 'Truth light' that has slowly gained momentum over the past couple of years.

These adherents claim they are faithful witnesses, and shun the idea that they are apostates but who also feel that the Watchtower leadership has lost its way. Now when these unsanctioned meetings eventually comes to light, as these things tend to do, the organization in the past could have afforded to lose these members, referring to this nascent rebellion as a "harvest sifting", the term used by Russell and also exploited by Rutherford.

But there's a rub. The financial problems brought about by the current Governing Body may very well intensify which could also threaten the viability of the organization. The governing body would have to look for an excuse for why God has supposedly withdrawn his spirit (money). They could now argue that they lost sight of the original goal of being personal Witnesses to Jehovah and this new path was a ploy of Satan's system. This would play nicely into this old guards ideas, consoling them and giving the governing body an emergency parachute for why they financially screwed up so badly. Therefore to make amends they would just return to Truth 1.0:

1. Literature carts will be discarded because sooner or later it will filter upwards that the people manning these carts are just counting time.

2. JW.org will be de-emphasized and the video broadcasts reduced to a trickle.

3. There will be a re-emphasis on using the Bible to personally preach and a return to Witness fundamentalism.

Now this scenario is just a possibility and perhaps not a strong probability (to paraphrase Frederick Franz), but I have to ask: Is this not a reasonable way for this to play out in the foreseeable future?

49

Dissenters in Watchtower History: Differing Departures

by slimboyfat in

i'm reading an excellent book about defectors from the mormon church called differing visions: dissenters in mormon history.

through a collection of essays from many academic authors it looks at the life stories of dissenters and reasons for departure, as well as analysing the impact of their dissent on the church itself.

fascinating stuff and makes me wish there was a similar volume looking at the key dissenters from jws/watchtower and the impact they had.

Saintbertholdt

Two additional names I'd like to toss into the hat:

James Penton and

Jerry Bergman

23

Confronting Parents About 607 vs 587

by breezy in

just thought i would update you guys since my 1st post last week.i haven't been to the meeting for about 2 weeks now, and maybe have like 1 or 2 hours of service combined within the past 2-3 months.

i obviously get the love bombing from relatives when they don't see you at the hall for a while.

" we missed you at the meeting last week.

Saintbertholdt

There are 17 ways to get to 587 BCE. See - The Gentile Times reconsidered by Carl Olaf Jansen

An interesting question is whether C T Russell used his own Bible research to get to 1914?

The answer is simple: Not at all. In 1823, John Aquila Brown published the book The Even-Tide. In the second last chapter called: TWO THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED AND TWENTY YEARS OR DURATION OF THE FOUR TYRANNICAL EMPIRES (page 130) he asserted that the "seven times" of Daniel 4 was a prophetic 2,520 years, running from the beginning of Nebuchadnezzar's reign in 604 B.C. to 1917 A.D.

John Brown believed that Armageddon would then take place. Brown also placed emphasis on the year 1843 (The year which William Miller used). The method Brown used to arrive at his date is exactly the same that Russell adopted, even thinking that Armageddon would arrive in 1914 as did Brown. Russell just adjusted the 604 B.C.E. date to 607.

The idea that Russell got to 1914 using his own research is pure fantasy. It is the product of John Brown who was part of conventional Christianity or what Jehovah's Witnesses like to call: Babylon the Great.

42

Talking to Jesus

by Kiana in

hi.. do jehovah's witnesses talk to jesus?.

thanks..

Saintbertholdt

29

Why do people kill each other?

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

why do there have to be wars?

why is there so much hatred?.

the collective answer i came up with is natalisam, or maybe the correct word should be politics?

Saintbertholdt

Well whatever it is, it will probably be permanently attached to a mobile phone.

29

Why do people kill each other?

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

why do there have to be wars?

why is there so much hatred?.

the collective answer i came up with is natalisam, or maybe the correct word should be politics?

Saintbertholdt

Too late... we already did that

Well I guess its on to Homo sapien sapien sapien then.

212

Why Do You No Longer Believe in God?

by Tenacious in

i know this question has popped up from time to time but i really would like to know how you guys, those that no longer believe, came to that conclusion?

was it the wts and all its crap?

was it something you read?

Saintbertholdt

I don't think God exists... yet.

See: The law of accelerated returns

29

Why do people kill each other?

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

why do there have to be wars?

why is there so much hatred?.

the collective answer i came up with is natalisam, or maybe the correct word should be politics?

Saintbertholdt

Why do there have to be wars? Why is there so much hatred?

Syme gave a good answer:

"Archaeology and paleoanthropology show that violence was much more prevalent in prehistorical bands and groups, than it is today."

Yeah we're barely out of caves and the impulse to club thy neighbor is still alive and well within each human.

But I think we're getting more civilized... very very slowly. One day we'll graduate from homo sapien to homo sapien sapien. And when we're all nice and civilized and we practice war no more, an alien race will come along and enslave the lot of us... snicker.

19

And China's version of the Nobel prize goes to ... Robert Mugabe! WTF?!

by LoveUniHateExams in

according to the guardian, the confucius peace prize has been awarded this year to one robert gabriel mugabe.

yes, you read that right.

i suppose i could've put this thread in either the entertainment section or joke section instead.

Saintbertholdt

Oh hahahahahahahahahaha... my sides.

I guess his nomination could not have anything to do with the $1 Billion thermal power contract Bob signed with China:

http://mgafrica.com/article/2015-07-24-zimbabwe-company-inks-11bn-thermal-power-deal-with-china

or the $1.9 Billion contract signed with China for housing construction:

http://constructionreviewonline.com/2015/05/zimbabwe-signs-us1-9bn-housing-project/

Naaaaaaaa...