Posts by jp1692

57

Sarah Huckabee Sanders Kicked Out Of Restaurant For Supporting Trump

by minimus in

jw
friends

i think it’s ridiculous to kick people and families out of a restaurant because of politics.

.

jp1692

Minimus: no one should do what Maxine Waters is recommending.

And I completely agree. And I made that point. Clearly.

57

Sarah Huckabee Sanders Kicked Out Of Restaurant For Supporting Trump

by minimus in

jw
friends

i think it’s ridiculous to kick people and families out of a restaurant because of politics.

.

jp1692

Minimus: If conservatives encouraged harassing anyone that disagreed with them . . .

And plenty of them have.

I didn’t pick a side in my comments. But you sure did in yours.

I merely recounted the inevitable laws of cause and effect. Thankfully the laws of physics are non-partisan!

Did you notice that you didn’t engage a single one of my arguments? Not one.

Instead you chose to flip the script and go after Hillary. Had you understood my post you would know that I think harassing her—or anyone else for that matter—is just as wrong. But you didn’t. Why not?

You’ve apparently lost your ability to think. Maybe you never had it. Many ex-cult members never developed the ability to think clearly and for themselves.

And your juvenile name-calling is childish and ridiculous. But I understand, you’re just imitating your Lord.

I’m very disturbed by the fairly large number of people on this forum that have left the JW cult just to join another.

I guess it’s true: ”You can take the person out of the cult, but you can’t take the cult out of the person.”

57

Sarah Huckabee Sanders Kicked Out Of Restaurant For Supporting Trump

by minimus in

jw
friends

i think it’s ridiculous to kick people and families out of a restaurant because of politics.

.

jp1692

What should be and what is are (and always have been) two completely different things.

While I don't condone or agree with the hostile, public incivility that some have recently displayed towards Sarah Huckabee Sanders and Kirstjen Nielsen, I have to say: What the hell do they expect?

Their behavior is completely offensive and egregious to many people.They must know that. They'd have to be stupid not to. But they aren't stupid. Sanders and Nielsen are both intelligent people. They should be able to do the math and expect push-back from those that disagree with them. So what's the problem?

I don't know. But the response from those that disagree with their public statements and actions are totally predictable. The fact that Sanders, Nielsen and their ilk didn't anticipate these totally foreseeable reactions betrays any number of cognitive faults in their thinking processes, not the least of which is a sense of entitlement that is both wholly undeserved in their cases and completely anti-American.

Many of the actions of members of the Trump administration are completely tone-deaf, "let them eat cake moments" that are just beyond belief for their gross insensitivity.

Seriously. Kirstjen Nielsen chooses to go to a Mexican restaurant right after defending a highly controversial policy concerning immigrants at the Mexican border! That's just stupid. Why didn't she go out for Italian or Chinese? Rookie move all the way. Seriously.

Hello! "What were you thinking, Kirstjen? Oh, I guess you weren't."

And Melania Trump's decision to wear the "I don't care ..." jacket was also completely tone-deaf and insensitive. So dumb.

I know she didn't have it on when she was actually at the detainment facilities, but we all know she had it on both before and immediately after. Undoubtedly in a failed attempt at damage control, her "spokesperson" says (because she apparently can't speak for herself) that it wasn't a message, but not too long later her hubby immediately contradicts her by saying it was a message. They can't even get on the same page for chrissakes!

I'm sure Marie Antoinette is rolling over in her grave right now telling Team-Trump to "dial it back a bit!"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

And please don't troll me about the Marie Antoinette story being apocryphal. I know. I was there. Just get the point and move on.

19

Just seen on Twitter: Ol' Rubber Face Steven Lett - Obedience Required

by jp1692 in

just seen on twitter: .

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jp1692

Steven Lett actually had a lot to do with me waking up and realizing that I was in a cult.

When he would give talks at District Conventions I couldn't watch on the big screen because he is such a rubber-faced fool.

My now ex-wife would try to chastise me for not looking--insinuating that I was "disrespectful."

On more than one occasion (we had the "privilege" of having Lett as a DC speaker several times) I'd respond, "You look at him. I can't!"

She'd try for a little while and then sheepishly say, "No, I can't either."

I was PIMO sixteen years ago and completely left nine years ago. She is still in.

Go figure.

Let's review: It's a cult!

19

Just seen on Twitter: Ol' Rubber Face Steven Lett - Obedience Required

by jp1692 in

just seen on twitter: .

.

jp1692

Just seen on Twitter:

23

what as your first jolt that started your wake up process?

by yourmomma in

jw
friends

you know when you are in a deep sleep and something happens that may put you on a different level of sleeping, not as deep.

anyway, then i thought, 90 minutes for lunch?

so, there is a group waiting to cross the street.

jp1692

Click here for a scan of the 1969 Awake! which I referenced in my post above.

The excerpt quoted above is the first two full paragraphs on the page on the right.

Thanks to Paul Grundy at jwfacts.com for providing this!

23

what as your first jolt that started your wake up process?

by yourmomma in

jw
friends

you know when you are in a deep sleep and something happens that may put you on a different level of sleeping, not as deep.

anyway, then i thought, 90 minutes for lunch?

so, there is a group waiting to cross the street.

jp1692

About sixteen or seventeen years ago, my now-ex-wife that was raised as a JW told me this:

"If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. . . .
Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in high school and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone!" - Awake! 1969 May 22 p.15

She is still in the cult. I'm out.

She was 10 years old when she first read that. She just turned 59. Both of her JW parents are dead. Gone.

There is one thing about that quote from the Awake! that is true. She never did "fulfill any career that this system offers." She spent her entire life working in low-paying, unskilled jobs. She still does. No savings. No retirement. No plan.

As I was leaving the cult I returned to college and earned a teaching credential. After leaving the cult I went on to obtain a Master's degree in education. As a result, I have a great career that I love and am well-compensated with full benefits--all things I never had when I was in the cult.

My only regret is that I wish I'd left the cult sooner (or never even joined) and earned my degrees sooner. But at least I did both.

She is still waiting for "soon." My soon has come and I'm enjoying every minute of it!

Ironic. No?

56

Spiritual "Protection" - a Menace on Psychological Development

by Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho in

not quite a week ago, @lost in the fog created a thread entitled: do you have this illness?.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5187824140681216/do-you-have-this-illness.

in my year of being on this forum, i have browsed many a disillusioned thread of ex-jehovah’s witnesses expressing similar symptoms of post traumatic stress disorder when detailing their awakening - my own story included.

jp1692

Wake-me,

Thank you for starting this very thoughtfully written thread on such an important topic, one which is really relevant for us that have left the cult. Really, anyone that has left any cult will likely go through a similar process.

The trauma of realizing that our entire belief system was a fraud is profound and can lead to a total psychological break. Then -- just when we are at our weakest and need support the most -- we are also usually abandoned by everyone we love.

The betrayal is profound. It is deep.

The mental, emotional and psychological damage can be long-lasting. Many, maybe even most, of us fail to seek appropriate help from mental health professionals, usually due to the indoctrinated fear of talking to them. (The cult's effects are strong and pernicious.)

I completely agree with you that, as part of our healing process, we need to develop our critical thinking abilities.

This is something which I have given much thought to and devoted a great deal of time to researching. Coincidentally, I wrote about this very subject just a couple of days ago in another thread here and again here.

People often talk about "critical thinking skills" as if they were a single set of tools that one can acquire, learn how to use and then apply universally to any and all situations. Unfortunately that is not the case and it is important that we understand and accept that if we are to be able to learn how to think critically.  

Thinking critically is really a way of thinking -- a mindset or an approach to how we attempt to understand things and solve problems. It is NOT simply a set of skills such as learning to identify logical fallacies.

The particular skills or techniques we learn and employ are almost always content or subject specific. What that means is that the kind of thinking we learn to use in one area (such as chemistry or geometry) is not readily transferable to other areas (such as historical analysis or argumentation). Learning to balance an equation for the combustion of methane will NOT help you identify logical fallacies in rhetorical discourse.

There are certain specific skills that will help us learn to untangle the knots the bound us in the cult indoctrination. Some have already touched on a few of these such as learning to recognize logical fallacies and other rhetorical methods of propaganda and manipulation. We can and should learn these and learn them well.  

We should also learn to develop our confidence. For us that have left a cult, simply learning to ask questions -- good, well-thought out and clearly formulated questions -- is a big and important step.

In your OP you wrote that we "have been groomed to possess inherently lazy thinking abilities." I would respectfully disagree and say it's actually much worse than that: we were actively discouraged from thinking. How many time were we told to "avoid independent thinking"? I know I lost count decades ago.

Here's a typical quote from the first WT that came up in a Google search:

In modern times, a very small number among God’s people have become disgruntled with some aspect of Christian teaching and have murmured against the earthly part of Jehovah’s organization. Why does this happen? Such murmuring is often caused by a lack of understanding of God’s way of doing things. The Creator progressively reveals the truth to his people. Hence, our understanding of the Scriptures is bound to be refined from time to time. The vast majority of Jehovah’s people rejoice over such refinements. A few become “righteous overmuch” and resent the changes. (Ecclesiastes 7:16) Pride may play a role, and some fall into the trap of independent thinking. Whatever the reason, such murmuring is hazardous, since it can draw us back into the world and its ways. - [Emphasis added] -(Watchtower, July 15, 2006, pp. 19-23)

You were much closer to the mark when you commented that our "Intellectual responsibility is frequently delegated" and our "thinking skills are outsourced." This is so true.

We need to reclaim our intellectual responsibilities and no longer let anyone else do our thinking for us. For many of us that can be a scary process. But it is something that we all can learn to do and learn to do well.

It takes time, it takes effort, but it can be done. In fact, it must be done if we are to fully recover from the trauma of being in a cult.

Thank you again for taking the time to write this thread and start this discussion. It has been a pleasure to see how much you have grown in the time you've participated in this forum. When you first joined you were a weak and very scared little girl that was completely unsure of herself and didn't know what to do. You are now a strong, determined, and obviously very intelligent and confident young woman.

jp

80

Are we losing our way a bit at JWN?

by nicolaou in

firstly, i want to be crystal clear how grateful i am for jwn.

it's been my place of support for over seventeen years and it's the first online space i direct anyone to if they are taking steps out of the cult.

i am not bashing jwn - i love this place and appreciate the hard work and expense simon puts in to keep it going.

jp1692

OTWO: I just wish so many can not make it so personal in attacking differing views. ... I don't ever think I should belittle the person. Calling people stupid never helps.

^^^ THIS ^^^

55

Cults in our Midst

by Lee Elder in

this is related to a comment i made in a previous thread.

cults exist in many diverse parts of society.

this includes politics.

jp1692

BOC: the one thing that all full-blown cults have in common is family/friends shunning a person just because they believe something different or walk away from the cult.

It’s anecdotal, but I personally know dozens of people that have told me they have been cut-off, unfriended and otherwise shunned on social-media and in the real world because of different political beliefs. That is, by definition, cultish behavior.