Posts by TonusOH

13

Things Rutherford got wrong that Fred Franz had to clear up

by slimboyfat in

i was interested by the suggestion in a recent discussion that rutherford was in some way preferable to fred franz, because i’ve not come across this view before.

it made me rethink my assumptions and try to work out why i hold the opposite view and prefer fred franz to rutherford.

i haven’t done any additional research, so i’m only drawing on what i can remember off the top of my head, but i thought i’d list a few things where i reckon fred franz’s approach was preferable to rutherford.

TonusOH

I can never figure out for sure if Rutherford was a true believer (who really beleived that he was God's chosen) or if he recognized that he was running a massive racket and just having fun with it. He seemed to make doctrinal changes for the sake of differentiating the organization from other Christian groups. I think Franz took the JW religion seriously and wanted others to do so as well. He didn't clean everything up (such as restoring a lot of holidays and religious observances) but he did try to roll back some of the more egregious stuff.

He probably should have scrapped Rutherford's penchant for predicting the end, but I suppose he couldn't help himself.

45

What is the Craziest Thing You Are Aware Of Someone Being Disfellowshipped For?

by Sea Breeze in

i knew a lady who was disfellowshipped for 20 years for smoking.

she finally went back to the kh and since they couldn't find her paperwork, (all the former elders were dead) she was allowed back in without reinstatement.

no one even remembered her.

TonusOH

Nathan Natas: Currently I'm doing Dihydrogen Monoxide

Careful with that stuff. It's used in pesticides and industrial solvents. Too much can kill you!

22

The JW's are suing Mark O'Donnell in civil court for millions.So protect the pedos, and suit the whistelblowers? Shame on this cult!

by WingCommander in

jw
friends

link to his announcement on www.jwchildabuse.org:.

https://www.jwchildabuse.org/news/jehovahs-witnesses-sue-editor-of-jw-child-abuse-website-for-millions/.

if anyone needed any further proof of how low and despicable this cult has become, here's more evidence.

TonusOH

As Pete said, they have to prove actual damages in order to get a judgment for any amount of money.

My guess is that they know this. The goal is to drain O'Donnell's bank account (via the costs of litigation, not necessarily a judgment), intimidate other exJWs, and track down the JWs who spoke to him. They are demanding a list of "every Jehovah’s Witness [he has] communicated with in the last five years regarding the faith of the Jehovah’s Witnesses." They want to clear out anyone who is providing information to critics. They know they have quite a lot of PIMOs who leak information, and they want to find as many of them as they can.

9

bomb for jehova italy

by andr in

italy meets another bomb in front of the kingdom hall, after having caused a scandal on tv, now it is also dangerous to go to the hall.

here is the image of the press release.

TonusOH

The problem I find with that approach is that, once we agree to prosecute hate speech, the people in power suddenly become highly sensitized to hate speech. It gets redefined as "speech that I hate." And the desire --and ability-- to silence dissent is the hallmark of destructive authoritarian regimes throughout history.

11

Federal Investigation into JW procedures

by kenmayo1 in

https://www.investigatewest.org/investigatewest-reports/wa-law-mandating-clergy-report-child-abuse-to-be-investigated-by-trumps-justice-department-17882445.

investigatewest.

wa law mandating clergy report child abuse to be investigated by tr.... .

TonusOH

I just want to point out that clergy-penitent priviledge doesn't prevent a religious organization from encouraging victims of abuse to report it. One of the criticisms of the WTS is that they took the approach of wanting to keep things "in-house" to 'protect Jehovah's name.' This included discouraging victims from reporting crimes to the police.

They have since been forced to change this stance. I would hope that they continue to emphasize the importance of reporting crimes to the authorities, who have the personnel, procedures and training necessary to investigate them. Leaving something so serious in the hands of inexperienced and unprepared men whose only options are to ask "did you do it?" is not good enough. I daresay that allowing people to get away with CSA does more to sully the name of Jehovah than anything else.

15

Did the WT Policy on Lying Bother You When You Were a JW?

by Sea Breeze in

here's the wt standard for lying: "while malicious lying is definitely condemned in the bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it" - insight pp.

244-245. vs. websters dictionary:.

lie, noun.

TonusOH

Telling your wife "no, that dress doesn't make you look fat" is an acceptable lie, as it may prevent severe injury or even death. And, by the time you get to that part of your life, she probably knows you're lying and only asked the question to help to remind you of where you stand.

Telling a prospective Bible study target that they're not a prospective Bible study target is a good way to guarantee that, at some point, they'll realize you lied to them. And, if they ever have questions or doubts, they will not be able to trust a JW to help them, because they know JWs will lie to them to keep them in the fold. "Lying for the Truth" just doesn't have a very good ring to it.

19

Self control fruits of the spirit. Fat GB seem to lack it

by JohnR1975 in

fruits of the spirit would surely be required to be gb members?

yet some of them seem to lack self control when it comes to eating.

br herd, mark sanderson and br jackson in these are all very obese.. if they travel to poor places wearing their rolex watches and gold pinky rings the brothers there will surely wonder why they are so fat.. there are many scriptures talking about not being greedy and not gluttonous for food.. if they were really chosen by god as his channel on earth then why can’t they show the fruits of the spirit and show self control when it comes to being gluttonous?.

TonusOH

Rattigan350: The GB are just overseers of the worldwide congregation.

I think this is what they really are, and what they are supposed to be. But they see themselves as God's anointed representatives on Earth, given their position, authority, and understanding directly from Jehovah through holy spirit.

I guess they will claim to only be overseers when they are being questioned by lawyers, though.

12

Christians and War and the Role of Conscience (a work in progress)

by Terry in

christians and war and the role of conscience ______________ christian integrity vs duty to superior authority from the federal government’s povthe u.s. government saw jw’s as one group within a larger group of men refusing military service within existing law - for reasons of deeply held convictions.

we jw brothers weren’t the only ones affected, as evidenced by this list.. quakers.

jehovah’s witnesses.

TonusOH

In the USA, the people are the State. The government is literally the elected representatives of the people, and mechanisms exist to remove and replace them, should they act contrary to their duties.

This is not to say that it's a perfect system (none such exists) or that politicians don't try to get away with as much as they can. It's just to point out that the power to prevent or resolve that problem lies in the hands of the populace. We should not surrender that power without a fight.

45

What is the Craziest Thing You Are Aware Of Someone Being Disfellowshipped For?

by Sea Breeze in

i knew a lady who was disfellowshipped for 20 years for smoking.

she finally went back to the kh and since they couldn't find her paperwork, (all the former elders were dead) she was allowed back in without reinstatement.

no one even remembered her.

TonusOH

Dagney: As one elder told me "you win no battles with elders."

When you think about the JC arrangement, you see how this is true. Elders are basically Company Men, chosen for their loyalty moreso than their knowledge or understanding of anything. It is a system that produces elders who are rigid, inflexible, and woefully unprepared for a role of providing spiritual guidance and moral support. It should be no surprise that many of them let it get to their heads, as it is the first --and possibly only-- position of authority that they have. They are utterly unqualified for the most important task that they will be asked to perform. It's recipe for disaster.

16

New Light!

by blondie in

jw
friends

.

TonusOH

They either have to imply that Jehovah mislead them, or they have to admit that they did not receive the signal clearly, or... they have to admit that they are making it all up.

None of those makes them seem trustworthy. Is it that God is incompetent? Is it that the GB is incompetent? Or is it that the GB are selling snake oil? What other explanation is there?