Posts by TonusOH

22

1914- responsible for the biggest decrease in JW's?

by joey jojo in

theres a couple of threads re: 1914 on the board right now and it got me thinking.. the jw doctrine of the 1914 generation is a key doctrine , yet it is probably the number one reason most have left over the decades.. 1975- within one generation.. 1995 - new understanding of the word generation.. 2010- overlapping generation first mentioned- some anointed survive armageddon.. 2015- infamous overlapping generations chart featuring david splane.. its obvious the org is changing the goalposts and constantly trying to squeeze as much time as they can before they have to abandon this altogether.

or will they come up with something new?.

does anyone else think this ever changing doctrine is responsible for the biggest loss of members?.

TonusOH

I don't have a clue about the actual numbers, but I do think it was a mistake to return to the "generation" teaching after they effectively let it go in 1995. It was a way of admitting that the teaching was wrong, and they could still cling to 1914 as the year Christ quietly returned and began the last days. It would hurt them in terms of recruiting if they could not create the old sense of urgency, but the "generation" teaching was dead at that point.

Going back and redefining it was a way to imply that there is a deadline that can be counted, in the hopes of creating that old sense of urgency. But it's a complicated and messy concept, and you can no longer just say "the generation that saw these things is getting older" because (A)you already abandoned that idea and (B)everyone knows you can just extend it again. So you cannot create the urgency this way, but you also set off a lot of people's BS meters. There is only so much most people can take before the doubts become a real problem.

8

Do JWs trust and rely on bad reviews? Why should they? How could it be coherent?

by psyco in

jws are taught that all bad reviews about them made by exjws are false and sick, so they must not read or listen to them.. so, when jws decide on joining, applying, or buying whatever product, service or organization: are they reading and listening only to good reviews about people still satisfied with that product, service, or organization because they consider false and sick all bad reviews made by people who abandoned that?

do they trust and rely on all bad reviews reported in documentaries, on internet, on tv, on magazines etc.

about people who left scientology, who left that house, who left that job position, who left that hotel, who left that restaurant, who left that medical treatment etc.?

TonusOH

How can a newspaper be good enough to cite in a Watchtower publication, but the same newspaper be condemned as declared forbidden reading?

I think it depends on how your worldview is shaped. If the idea is that the whole world is effectively against you (because it is under the control of God's main enemy), then you can claim that any good news has to be legitimate, since Satan is loathe to allow anything positive to be said. Conversely, bad/negative news or information cannot be true, since Satan would want to put the JWs in the worst possible light, and doesn't hesitate to lie.

If you point out the absurdity of this concept, you are likely to be bombarded with a flood of "what about this" objections and cherry-picked examples that only prove the point to someone who is already inclined to believe it. If your worldview is that Satan controls the world and the media, and is determined to bring the WTS down, you are willing to accept some very thin premises in order to maintain that point of view. Confirmation bias is a very powerful thing.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

TonusOH

If he had a good business sense, he would price that second book very cheap and promote it constantly, then use that book to promote the larger and more costly (and unintentionally funny) book.

Of course, if he had good business sense, he wouldn't have done any of the dozen things he's done over the past few months. So close, and yet so far.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

TonusOH

Sometimes lawyers take a case without really knowing what they are getting into.

Well, many people have experienced this when working with Evans in activism, it would be no surprise if his lawyer were to discover the same thing. Hopefully, they're not working pro bono.

But it would be hilarious if he ever asked his lawyers to add themselves to the litigation.

27

Oct 8 1966 Awake! PDF-- pushes 1975 date

by cabasilas in

details about how to download the october 8, 1966 awake!

magazine pdf will appear at the end of this post.

background.

TonusOH

The book Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God

Am I the only one who thought that was a really awkward title? What does it even mean?

As for predicting the time of the end, it's such a common thing throughout the history of Christianity that it boggles the mind. The very book that they venerate as being inspired by God tells them (the words coming from God Himself!) that no one else knows the day or time and that no one should even be worrying about the day or time!

The whole idea was for believers to remain steadfast in their faith and not waver, for fear that the day of judgment might be upon them unexpectedly. Now, that itself can seem pretty cruel, but the fact is that it is laid out very clearly. Yet for centuries, men have tried to come up with specific dates for the end. It's insanely tone-deaf.

15

2022 - 1914 = ?

by fedup in

obviously not the orgs brightest moment for teaching that the generation of 1914 would be alive to see paradise.

forget the "new light" that bought them an extra 100 years, which if any other religion would've done this, the org would scream false religion.

the fact is that for 75 years this #1 recruiting message from the society was a lie.. i asked a current jw to get a calculator and do the math: 2022 - 1914 = an angry reaction.

TonusOH

It's a blend of cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. We can easily see the absurdity in a situation when it is being promoted by someone we are not associated with, yet we bend our reasoning into very odd shapes when we want to defend the absurd things that we have invested ourselves into.

I think it's more difficult today to get away with trying to memory-hole inconvenient facts about their past, but the WTS has no other choice if they want to keep the grift going. But they managed to make 1914 (as the date of the end, not the beginning of the end), 1918, 1925 and 1975 disappear. Making 1914 and the generation teaching go away will take some work- I think they made a big mistake trying to rehab it with the overlapping generations explanation. There have to be a lot of people who saw that as the last straw, or as the first crack in the foundation.

19

What have you forgotten you ever even knew?

by Simon in

jw
friends

at a certain point, as the years tick by, you start to realize that you have forgotten a lot of things.

typically, something you learned, some knowledge or skill you used to have, that you just haven't used for so long you no longer remember anything but that you once knew it.. i saw an article about electrical resistors the other day, and how the colored bands signify the rating.

now all i remember is that i used to know it, and that resistors do something with, erm, electricity ...

TonusOH

What is the old joke? "Memory is the second thing you lose as you get older. I can't recall what the first is..."

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

TonusOH

What should we get him for his birthday?

Send him 3,000 euro in Monopoly money. It's the proper way to settle the litigation.

As for the background in his bunker, I think he wanted to show that he had a large collection of WT books and material, but also wanted to make it fancier than just a bookcase lined with books. What he ended up with looks like a shrine. Any of the GB would be happy to shoot a video with that as a backdrop.

But I would advise them to wipe the seat thoroughly with a damp rag before they sit down.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

TonusOH

That ad would be perfect if the censoring stripe was across his neckbeard.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

TonusOH

Also: Since he was "forced" to put the info about his infidelity into the book, he might as well go about and do it.

Apparently, he felt it was a sensible explanation when she asked him why he cheated. It's insane.

He's clearly a man of deep integrity!

He is so committed to honesty that: if he says he cheated with prostitutes, he must then do so. Otherwise he'd be a liar, and that's just unacceptable!

He values consistency so highly that: having paid for sex once, he decided to do so every couple of months for three or four years!

He values his honor and reputation so highly that: he files criminal charges and sends legal letters in a manner that can be charitably described as unserious.

He values his wife and family so highly that: oh, wait... he doesn't value them at all.