ok, until i check with everyone who is in them whether they are ok for their picture to be posted i will stick to 'safe' ones (ie.
people who have already posted their pics or said it was ok):.
mark aka celtic / invisible and englishman.. .
Simon,
Trucker just sent me an e-mail about the great fun had by all at the BBQ. He was amazed at the turnout! Everyone looks very happy. It was very nice of Englishman to host the gathering. Sounds like it was a great turnout. Looks like you had a "picture-perfect" day.
Your pictures are great too! Your boys are adorable. All the "baldies" look "cool".
From the side, "Celtic" Kinda reminds me of Phil Collins.
Karen
jw women have a greater need than jw men to stay ever vigilant and attentive of the watchtower's back and forth rules and regulations which they have the nerve to teach is "new light" from god.
depending on the "new light" from the governing body, if she doesn't scream during a rape, she will be charged by the elders as an adulteress ... someone who may have actually 'enjoyed' the violent act because of her silence.
if another jw woman was raped in 1969 and she didn't scream, she would not be disfellowshipped.
Incense
I finally read this post and I truly enjoyed it. I thought it was especially appropriate for women.
The confusion and contradiction is so obvious. Your pictures of Drew and the WT/Awake articles to "support" each remark is excellent.
Why can't JW's just listen to our own conscience? Why do they have to get inside people's lives so much---and it's plain to see, their "light" was really more blinding than anything else.
IslandWoman gave a really good reply about Spiritual Rape. Right on the mark.
Karen/Sentinel
yep......it was announced at the hall.
i got told by someone who still goes.
i had not attended for 2yrs but i thought they might have informed me!
If I worked at a job, and I didn't report for two years, I think they would have tried to contact me during that time to see where I wanted my final paycheck to be sent. They probably would have asked for an explanation. Someone I worked with would have at least called me to find out what was up.
Since you just didn't do your job for two years as a Ministerial Servant, they probably had a long list of others just waiting to take your place.
I'm sorry if you are feeling down and out, but the organization is many times callous and unthinking in how it cares for "it's sheep". We all know that real concern and love for fellow JW's is very lacking and this is just another example.
You are welcome here. Hopefully, you will find a new direction in life. Sounds like you've been looking for two years at least.
Take care of yourself and be happy. Life is too short (and not because Armegeddon is coming)
Karen/Sentinel
in this article i show that the watchtower leadership has hardened its standpoint on disfellowshipping.
they turned their standpoint from "disfellowshipping does not sever family ties" towards "quit mixing with them".
the evidence can be seen if you compare the statements on the jw-media.org website in the beliefs-frequently asked questions section before july 2002 and the hardened statement in july 2002. screenshots of both statements are displayed on watchtower information service.. .
Why am I not surprised by yet another "update" in the "vision" from JW's.
Lately I'm having a real serious problem, as I am now questioning the teachings in the bible. I am finding out that so many of the followers of Jesus were women bashers, especially Paul. I'm learning that quite posibly the bible is just a mix-match of various peoples "opinions", which are then no better or no less than my own.
So, I will just come to my own conclusions about what I read, and if it sounds stupid and rediculous I will just discount it. I am considering the words of Jesus only, and then am not too certain that the quotes around what he is supposed to have said are correct. And, I'm not at all certain that Jesus was just another enlightened human being. We've had many over the course of time.
We owe it to ourselves to be joyful and happy. A religion that tears families apart and is so rigid and infllexable is not healthy. But, then the JW's are a cult. They have to be that way in order to keep people in line. What they've done to families and individuals is unthinkable and unacceptable.
Love and Light,
Karen/Sentinel
on thursday evening, i received a phone call from a young woman, i have been helping by talking and emailing.
i have never met her.
bill bowen put her in touch with me nearly a year ago.
Mulan,
Thanks for your timely post. Soooo sorry your friend had that bad experience in chat. Sometimes it's best to just go with the flow, and then opt out and try reading the posts. I read for a long while before I ever became a member and posted. I tried chat but it didn't work for me. Through the posts, I have connected through e-mail with some wonderful sincere people.
I hope she will give us another chance. ((((HUGS)))) to you for your efforts.
Karen/Sentinel
i've noticed many new ones to our lil community here and have been unable to welcome you all personally.
there is a great variety of people here and loads of information and support.
feel free to vent!
Mimilly,
Can you read my mind or what! Your post is very timely and appropriate.
I too have noticed sooo much activity, I cannot keep up lately. So many new posts and new friends. So much to read. And the way you described the Forum here, is right on the mark.
Many of us have been very damaged and very hurt by our experiences, and are naturally cautious. Your recommendation to just browe around the Forum and be selective according to your choice is good admonition. We will be drawn to areas where we find what we need, whether it be a caring ((HUG)), some help and direction, some answers, some affirmations, or just a fun laugh or two. Other posts might offend us. We don't judge. We just pass those by.
Not everyone on here is of the same mind. Some are not JW's, but are familiar for one reason or another-marriage, family, friends. Some have been inactive for a short time or a very long time. Some df'd or da'd, losing friends and families. Some are still JW's with serious questions. And, then we have a few troublemakers, but Simon usually shows them the door.
And through the e-mail connections here, I have come to know some wonderful, sincere friends. Most of us have a unique common bond, so we truly already understand so many things that people that have never had any contact with the JW's do not. My husband's response to me, after locating this Forum, is that he is so very glad that I have "a place to go" where I can relate to a group who would truly understand my experiences.
Also, at times, what we mean to say or express might not be taken the way we intended. Sometimes we have to say we are sorry, or make a clarification. Printed word does not give all the expression of feeling as direct contact. We just have to try to give folks the benefit of the doubt most times.(I still need to figure out how to use those other icons??)
Along with Mimilly, I Welcome All
Karen/Sentinel
i updated my new homepage - "free at last.
" added some nice pictures, and started the links to my justice series.
also added a big cobra pict to the jw justice section - a fitting symbolic gesture for what one experiences when facing a judicial committee.
Amazing,
Thanks so much. Your web site is great. I think it is a wonderful service that you are doing to all the folks floundering in the world after having the JW experience.
We really do have to make a new life for ourselves, don't we? Funny, people keep asking me if I've been "re-born", and I was telling them no, because they were speaking in the context of religion.
But, actually any of us that find our way "out" of the org are very much re-born! It is a totally new beginning. It's nice that we have friends who are willing to set up Forums and Websites to assist us, comfort us, guide us, and give us the means to find and develope new friendships we so desperately need.
Love and Light,
Karen/Sentinel
hi folks,.
briefly, i now live just outside london, uk.
parents converted to jws when i was 2. moved twice to 'where the need was greater'.
Hello,
I enjoyed reading your post, especially the portion where you had a question about balancing "a God of Love, against the God of destruction". That was also one of my biggest inquiries. To me, I always thought about how parents relate to their children. No matter how bad they become or how embarrassing their actions, parents generally love their offspring. Even if for some reason they were dissatisfied with their conduct or lifestyle, they would not "destroy" their offspring. Since we are children of our creators, why would we have these "human" feelings, and yet be taught by JW's that God is going to kill off anyone who isn't a baptized JW. And why do JW's have to go against their own heart and shun children, mates, family members and friends. It certainly isn't showing love.
Also, another question I had, was if df'ing was such a serious thing, then why don't JW's require that the person be re-baptised, upon repentence and acceptance back into org? I mean, if when you are "out" you are considered as the "living dead", it would seem logical. And, if a person who had been "born into the org" or was baptised very young, as an adult no longer wished to honor their baptism with the org because they felt it just wasn't "the truth" for them--why they would be df'd or da'd.....simply for making their own adult choice?
I've noticed on this Forum, that both men and women suffer because of the JW influence in their lives. I suppose I can be very thankful that it is only my mother and her sister that are really active these days. Some have many family members that are still in, and this causes so many difficulties.
Funny, in some other post I was reading how families are split. For instance, one child, baptised and then df'd, is given the heave-ho, but another child, not baptised, having perhaps done the same "sin", is accepted as they always were. That would be a horrible family situation. In our family, everyone in was baptised, and so we all felt the affects when one or the other was df'd, reprimanded, or da'd. It made for a terrible disfunctional/split family. However, my Aunt has been faithful since the mid 40's, and she has three sons, who never were baptised. Family events, etc., were never a hastle. They chose their own way. The reason why this happened, is that my Uncle, a non-JW would not allow her to take my three cousins to any meetings. I always remember how he was labeled a very cruel man because of that. When they became of age, they made their own decision, which was of course, the right one. Their family was never split apart like ours.
It's nice to read a post by a man who has gone through similar situations as we all have here, and to read it from the male perspective. I appreciated everything you shared, and hope to see you here on the Forum.
Personally, I don't believe that any "religion" has the truth. I think it's a personal journey. Welcome to the human race!
Love and Light,
Karen/Sentinel
my boyfriend was disgusted with the jws after the panorama programme, and has decided to da himself.
none of his family are jw and he just simply does not want to be listed as a jw anymore.. since we are known by the congregation to be together, will they da or df me for seeing him?.
bear in mind, neither of us have set foot in the kh for a couple of years.
Sirona,
It occurs to me after reading your post and replies, that so much of the time we are so concerned with what "they", meaning the org will think. Is it not our relationship with the creator(s) that we should be more concerned about.
If your b/f makes this sacrifice to try to "hide" his true feelings, that cannot be healthy emotionally. It could lead to other relationship problems later on for the two of you as a couple. I don't know your age or other circumstances and that plays a big part too.
I wish you both success. If you are only trying to keep it together for family, they are going to find out sooner or later. Personally it would seem to be awfully stressful trying to lead a double life.
Just try to live your life and be happy. Continue to be loving and kind. If love or kindness is not returned when you are honest with your own heart, then you've done all you can. Time to take the losses and move ahead.
Keep us posted. Best wishes to you and yours.
Karen/Sentinel
well, for starters, you might just "stop" everything.
take a sabatical from physical intimacy.
) believe me, this will clear your head from too much overcrowding of emotion.. if you can't sleep, and your head feels like a million people are swimming around in there, you need a bit of help from something that will calm you down.
This reply is to Pistoff,
Sorry it has taken me some time to reply. Seems I am getting quite busy on this forum, reading posts, answering posts.
To answer your first question. Yes, there is no doubt that I totally internalized "doctrine". I truly believed everything I was taught for so many years, and then even when I felt they might be wrong, I was too programmed to get out in a healthy way. That's why I suffered for so long, full of so much guilt. I just didn't know which way to turn. And, it's not that I wasn't trying, but back then, there wasn't much help for someone stuck in a bad religion. People tended to treat it all so lightly. No one understood the JW concepts except JW's. Life for me was like a rolleycoaster. It's kind of humerous now, but I always said that "I got off the merry-go-round" when I left on my own in 1981,........only to get on the worlds fastest, loop-ti-loop rollercoaster at the other end of "life's park". That's just how it felt. I would have a brief moment of "having it together", and then bam, I'd hit that downslide again, and that's just the way emotions are.
Since you mentioned addiction, I will say to you this much. Love yourself. Do not hurt or punnish yourself for these "guilts" by giving into addiction again. You will only hate yourself more. You mention you have sons who are getting and staying clean, ....and "have attempted suicide." Did you mean that you have attempted, or they have attempted? I do not wish to misread this.
Your wife just doesn't want to deal with anything, any of the issues that you find so distressing. That is very sad, because you do need someone who will listen and not judge you. I do hope that you will not give up in trying to reach her. All thing in love.
I highly recommend even the mildest form of therapy, just finding someone to talk to, someone who can give you good direction without judging you. Trust yourself and your instincts. Remember, it is only the JW's who judge and asign names to things, like apostate. That is such a strong word for someone who just wants answers to honest questions, I think. So unreasonable. So unloving. It hurts to think that you and I, and many others here have lost so much of our life, ourselves to something we thought was "truth". But, It sounds to me like you are on your way a more balanced way of facing life, and that is good news.
I'm going state a simple, basic fact. It's never too late. As long as you live and breathe, you can change the road you're on--you can correct your mis-perceptions of yourself and the world we live in. Even if your business is "run by dubs" and you are knee deep and neck high, you do have choices. It's not too late to make a change in employment. What would you do to have joy and happiness in your life? A question worth pondering.... Have you read the posts by Amazing? He certainly had a rough road, was in for many years, but managed to salvage not only himself, but his family as well. He has written an expose of his life's experiences, which will likely be a book. There are so many others that post here that were in for many, many years.
This forum is for venting, for sharing, for caring, and for hope. I've only been here for awhile, but I've really found an interesting variety of people all over the world who usually have the JW influence as a common factor.
Hope to see you in the Forum.
Sentinel
