Ahhhhhh,
More new light.
Well, what about all the other congregations!!!
Change is good, but not in this case. How can they keep up with all of this "new light".
I think they need to change the bulb.
Karen/sentinel
Sentinel
JoinedPosts by Sentinel
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13
"seven stars" of Revelation 1:20 - JW...
by stevieb1 in.
according to the march 15, 2002 wt page 14 the "seven stars" of revelation 1:20 in christ's righ hand apply exclusively to appointed jw elders today and since they and the governing body are under christ's direction we should submit to their leadership etc.. .
at the kingdom hall last week i heard a talk in wich the speaker intimated that since the congregations in asia minor all received letters they were organized in much the same way as the wt is today.. what is your take on this matter?
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27
Is there life AFTER leaving?!!??!
by Perfection Seeker inmy name is melissa.
i am 33 years old.
my parents started studying when i was 5. i am trying to leave the orgainization, but keep getting pulled back in.
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Sentinel
Melissa,
I commend you for all the positive that you have accomplished. Your situation is different than mine was. But, within my own family, my sisters each took their turns with being out and in, as did I. My mother is still total borg, but aside from her, I have no problems with anyone else in my family. I have one other aunt who is a loyal JW. But that is it--everyone else is "normal". ~smile~
When I was preparing to leave, which was a long ten year process, I reacquainted myself with friends from school and relatives who were not JW's. I did not have a desire to involve myself with any other religion at the time.
For nearly 20 more years I lived life in sort of a fog. I really didn't know what to believe, so I stayed away from churchs, bibles, and bible literature. Everytime a nagging thought would jump into my mind, like dying at Armegeddon, I forced it down. I had issues of rejection and abandonment going on with both my parents. My father eventually did get baptized to please my mom, but it didn't last long. It rather upset me that in his obituary, they listed that he was a member of such and such congregation. I cringed!
The most important thing that I did for myself, was to face the JW doctrine, tear it down and apart and wash it totally away. I had to do this once and for all, even though I knew they were a sick group, I hadn't really faced the doctrinal issues head on again. It only took one statement from hubby to set me rolling. He suggested that perhaps we both should check out the local KH--that maybe I just needed to go to a different congregation and see things from a different prospective. YIKES! He never even heard of JW's until he met me. Life with me and my family and our JW history was all he'd ever heard. I knew then, that all of this was affecting things in my own marriage. I had to get myself together.
I already had many questions, and felt their treatment of members bordered on sadism. But, having been a borg, and never really taking a look deep inside myself kept me in a place that was emotionally dark, dreary, unfulfilled and unhappy. That's not much of a life. To face it head on was very scarry.
So I gathered up all my best intentions, and re-read Raymond Franz book, "Crisis of Conscience", another book called "The Orwellian World of JW's", and another book about a woman's escape after years in the borg. It was extremely painful to "feel" all these old feelings, and to bring them up and take a realistic look at everything.
It was a part of my journey for self discovery and understanding. I began to read the Bible, slowly and surely, and without the repititious teachings of JW's that had been inbedded in my mind for so long. Every time something would go "ping" and a JW dictate loomed at me, I would shut the Bible and wait. I pleaded with the creator(s) to allow me to re-teach myself. It is possible. I am still reading the Bible, but with a whole different slant. I'm reading it like a history book, and keeping in mind that history has a way of getting messed up in transistion. I began also to ready about the Dead Sea Scrolls and other literature that was hidden from us, or as JW's we were forbidden to even look at.
Then one day, I was released from all of it. It lifted up out of me, all the haunts of pain and torment and rejection and abandonment, the losses, the unhappiness, everything, just went. I let it go. That was a real turning point for me.
Melissa, it certainly is a very high mountain for you. Your family is just so imbedded inside the org, and this probably will not change. But you have so many resources at your fingertips and supportive friends who will help you. You will have to begin to replace your family one by one, by building a new family-oriented structure. It sounds odd, but because your family will reject you once they find out "who" you really are, you need to be building this new family each and every day.
In times of war, many families lost nearly everyone, and so, in a way, you too will lose your fleshly family. This is not your choice. You do not wish it to be this way, but because they are in a cult and you are not, you will not allow yourself to be molded into a JW borg again.
Seek counseling if you need it. I highly recommend someone who specializes in cults. Keep active and busy in this world. You are important, you are loved, and you are a worthwhile human being. Make a beautiful, wonderful life for yourself, and never stop growing. Some things just take time.
I wish you all the best in your endeavors. We are all on the forum to lend an ear and a heart.
Take care of yourself.
Love and LIght
Karen/Sentinel
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9
Story on freeminds.org
by joenobody inanybody here have a chance to read jay walker's story on freeminds.org?
i just got through reading pages and pages of it.
i was keenly interested early on in the story and the astoundign things that happened in it.
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Sentinel
Amazing,
I did what I said I would do. I found your story on "freeminds", printed it out and just finished reading it over this weekend.
The events you lived through, along with your family, do not at all seem embellished. I'm certain that when things really began to roll, you were keeping good personal journals. Writers usually do this. And, also, you have family members who can remember parts and pieces that you might have temporarily forgotten. This was, after all, YOUR LIFE for some 25 years.
I thought your experience was from the heart. You nearly accomplished the impossible--getting out without being labeled as "disfellowshipped or disassociated". They simply will not let that happen.
The part where you went to the Libray and got The Ray Franz book made me smile, as I too, got this book from my library and was so paranoid that I was being watched. I would not even read it in front of my husband, as I thought he just might "let it slip" to my son, who would then innocently enough pass it along to my mom or some other JW. I kept it hidden and read from it piece by piece the way you did. It was a real eye-opener. That was the first time I read it, while still "in". We had been warned from the platform that he had been disfellowshipped. I wondered then about what he was going through. We were told that he was an Apostate, and one of the worst kind, having been in such a high position in the Society.
Toward the end of 2001, I got the book again. I was able to read it in my home, comfortably, without feelings of guilt. Your thought about sending him a thank you rings true, and I must do that, as he certainly did affect the way I grew to feel about my situation. I have not read his second book yet.
Your experience of actually calling him on the phone and then meeting him and socializing with him and his wife much have been a wonderful thing. Thank you for sharing your journey with the public. There are many, many stories out there, each one individual, and yet, each one connected to the same horrible source, The WBTS.
You gave me an added insight into areas of the "secrecy" of the Society, their private meetings, the great levity of the Elders in congregations. The unjust, unfair, cruel and inhumane treatment of their dear "brothers and sisters", and small innocent children. Their conditional love, so contrary to the teachings of being a true spiritual personal.
They are a cult. We got out. Whatever we can do to help another in this area should be done.
That's why I'm a part of this forum.
Love and LIght,
Karen/Sentinel
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52
What are you now???
by SpiceItUp ini am sure this question has been posted by someone before ...but it wasn't by me so it doesnt count..lol .
to those that post here do you..... a. consider yourself christian.
b. consider yourself pagan.
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Sentinel
Hi Carol,
A good post for thought content! It seems that whenever one goes into the hospital they ask what your faith is. Well, let's see: I cannot say that I am Christian, or Jewish, or Catholic. I am not an atheist, nor an egnostic. Is there a category for me? Ah yes, there most deffinitely is.
I am:
ENLIGHTENED
I believe that something is responsible for the existence of all that we know. I tend to call these the creators.
I don't believe in religion period, but I am a very spiritual person. (Which is intirely different from someone practicing spiritism.)
I try to work towards the "good" in all things, and tolerate what is left over, that which we can't ignore.
I attempt to treat others the way I'd like them to treat me in return. I will only turn my cheek so many times, and then I have no use for the offenders in my life.
I explore the information available, and take what I need from it, and let the rest be. One cannot take everything into their minds, as we are not capable of that--we would burn out. There is just so much information out there, everywhere you turn. And our creators will dispense what we are meant to know when the time is right. No need to worry about tomorrow. No need to worry about dying.
I would rather choose the positive than the negative. Knowledge without wisdom is like water flowing through a strainer--it would all just pass through without leaving anything behind. I hope that my search will leave me with "much left behind".
There is no way we can possible know or understand all, but we can live our lives trying to improve ourselves, and searching for something better. We all should desire to be the best human being we can be. Humans have basic needs, and one of them is to be able to both give and receive love--real love, not just the physical kind. It sounds so simple, and yet, to love ourselves is one of the most difficult things we will ever "learn" to do. Yet, each of us must attempt to do that, for we are living a lie, if we do not.
And in that search for personal fulfillment, hopefully, we will find peace and contentment within ourselves, and live a joyful and happy life. And, if in doing so, we affect someone else in a positive way, then this is a return of the immeasurable.
"I am I"
Karen/Sentiel
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13
Noah's Flood & Other Bible Stories
by Sentinel indid anyone catch the east coast tlc (the learning channel) programs last night?
the first one was about noah's flood.
the program after that was about sodom & gammorah, the ancient apocalypse.. the programs were trying to establish that events have happened, and have been recorded, but the facts have been distorted within the structures of various existing societies inside the bounds of "religious dogma".
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Sentinel
Thanks SpiderMonkey,
I also remember something myself in a Reader's Digest years ago that had a big article about the so-called miracles in the Bible. Wish I could find that one too.
"The Truth Is Out There"
Karen/Sentinel
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Story on freeminds.org
by joenobody inanybody here have a chance to read jay walker's story on freeminds.org?
i just got through reading pages and pages of it.
i was keenly interested early on in the story and the astoundign things that happened in it.
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Sentinel
Amazing,
I just entered this thread, and saw where I could locate your story. It was easy to find. I have just finished printing it out and will read it all and then respond to you.
If I wrote my own story, people would no doubt have the same responses. The general rule is that stories similar to yours are everywhere. And, they have to be told. This was a closure for you, I'm sure. I will look forward to visiting your postings.
Take Care.
Love and Light
Karen/Sentinel
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11
I Just Can't Do It!
by Sentinel ini was rather surprised to see this subject in the forum, and so it peeked my curiousity.. when i was floundering in the borg, i really slowed down to a snails pace as far as reading any of the wt literature.. when i decided to walk away, (at the time with guilt and self doubt), i got rid of all the literature.
i had not renewed my wt subscribtion, and was not getting any other literature in the mail.
so, there was nothing coming in.
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Sentinel
I was rather surprised to see this Subject in the Forum, and so it peeked my curiousity.
When I was floundering in the borg, I really slowed down to a snails pace as far as reading any of the WT literature.
When I decided to walk away, (at the time with guilt and self doubt), I got rid of all the literature. I had not renewed my WT subscribtion, and was not getting any other literature in the mail. So, there was nothing coming in. I remember thinking that I could not in all honesty even give all my great library of books and Bibles to Good Will or Salvation Army. So I took it all to the dump--all except one Bible my dad had given me.
Strange now, when I think back. I just knew in my heart that it was "all so wrong" and that I didn't want to have even the remotest influence on another person as far as them coming into contact with JW's. So, I had to trash the literature. There was just no other choice for me.
It has never once occured to me to ever read any of that garbage again. Especially now, since the guilt is gone, and has been replaced with enlightenment. Even the "oh so subtle Awake" is out of bounds.
I realize that some of you are still having to "attend meetings" and "play the game", but as for me, I just can't do it.
"The Truth Is Out There".......but it doesn't come from the borg.
Karen/Sentinel
I have not read any of the WT literature in some twenty years, and I don't plan to.
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4
I Stopped The Madness & So Can You
by Sentinel inwell, for starters, you might just "stop" everything.
take a sabatical from physical intimacy.
) believe me, this will clear your head from too much overcrowding of emotion.. if you can't sleep, and your head feels like a million people are swimming around in there, you need a bit of help from something that will calm you down.
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Sentinel
Well, for starters, you might just "stop" everything. Take a sabatical from physical intimacy. (If you are married, talk to your mate and explain things.) Believe me, this will clear your head from too much overcrowding of emotion.
If you can't sleep, and your head feels like a million people are swimming around in there, you need a bit of help from something that will calm you down. Go to the doctor. Sleep deprivation causes our brain to short circuit.
It's like what happened to me about 20 yrs ago. My first husband, whom I had separated from the year before, killed himself. This absolutely devestated me, because I internalized everything and blamed myself, although there was no reason for it. My X mother in law lost it and threatened to hire someone to kill me. She obvious meant it, having gone to the MD State Police barricks several times, telling all of them what she planned to do, 'IF THEY DIDN'T ARREST ME FOR HER SON'S 'MURDER'....yes, she had twisted everything around, and blamed me, even though I was not even in the same state.
Perhaps if I hadn't known about this, I would have been alright, but the MD Police called me here to "warn" me of her threats, and to tell me that they had told her if she showed up another time they would have her arrested. She had just absolutely lost it. Anyway, when all this happened, I thought I would go nuts. I was afraid to go outside, afraid to travel anywhere. I CHANGED. I ALLOWED HER TO CHANGE ME.
I kept thinking I could handle all of this on my own, but then went for days and nights of not sleeping. I had nightmares. I was a wreck. I realized I needed some help. So, I went to the doctor and he said that I was "using up all my adrenaline" because I was constantly "wired to survive". That was the first time I took a tranquilizer. It was to "stop" the circuits in my brain from requesting adrenaline. It made me like a zombie, but at least I slept--and slept--and slept.
After some time of using that medicine, I just decided to stop. Then I was later introduced to Prozac, which I took for a very short while and then stopped. My point is, that sometimes we do have to take medicine. We just need to educate ourselves on the side affects from it's use. For me, just being on that stuff for a short while woke me up to the fact that I just needed to "let go" and learn to live without all the fear. It was a long struggle. I probably didn't get the right counsel at the right time, or the right medicine in some cases, but I kept trying.
Most of all the good that's happened to me mentally and physically has been through just "stopping the madness", taking a good look at myself, and seeing what I need to do to get better. You don't need another person to be complete. Honestly, you just need you. Find yourself and you'll be fine.
Sometimes, we just have to "feel bad" for awhile. We have to go through some stuff in order to grow and heal ourselves. If you are having difficulties, find someone you can talk to. Hang tight and don't date if you are single. If you are married, take some time for yourself--ask for it if you need to. You don't have to go away to do that. Find a private place in your home where you can meditate. Read a good self-help book. Stop thinking in terms of having to do it all right now. You have plenty of time. Let your experiences teach you something, and then "let go".
Relax and enjoy your life. Some of the things we believe to be most important, are highly overrated.
Best wishes to all of you in your endeavors to find yourself and feel better.
"The Truth Is Out There"
Karen/Sentinel
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How crucial Dad's are for daughters....
by Mimilly inafter physio today, i got on the bus to head home.
in a sleepy daze, i walked down the aisle looking for a seat on the mostly full bus.
my eyes then looked to the left and my heart went into the pit of my stomach.
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Sentinel
Dear mimilly,
Thank you for opening up a very big wound that still has not healed all the way. You have been hurt so terribly by one who was supposed to love and cherish you. To see him on a bus like that, just out of the blue--it must have been so heartbreaking. Your heart and mind must have been racing.
My first thought is what could cause a man to be so outwardly cruel and hateful to you, his flesh and blood. My dad was cold and distant, and had very little to do with me all through my life until he got to be around 65. His health had begun to go bad, and he was reaching out a bit more. Sometimes, I guess, the older a person gets, you get a different perspective on things. Maybe your dad will make a change as well.
Some men are just not capable of giving the right kind of love, not to their wives or their children. They would rather simply "possess" and "control". These men are not equiped emotionally, because they cannot love themselves. There must be something in his life, his childhood, to cause such an adverse reaction to family life. He is damaged...very sad for him.
My father always had a very negative view of the female. He totally disregarded me that's for sure. It hurt me so deeply that when I was little, I would "run away" going to other kids homes with them after school, just to be around other "daddys". I would see how kind and loving many of them were, eating dinner together and sharing news. I wanted that so badly. It would embarrass my father to have to drive to pick me up from these adventures, but my mom "wasn't allowed to drive", and so he had to be the one, once they got the call as to where I was at. He would pick me up and NEVER SAY ONE WORD TO ME THE WHOLE WAY HOME.
My dad would not let us talk openly and he "ruled". He would punnish us so severely for minor irritations, getting his belt out and lashing. He also had a special paddle made--one with a handle and holes in it. Boy did that ever hurt! He was always telling me to get lost, go away, don't bother him. So, when I entered puberty and got with JW's, I did just what he wanted, I began to ignore him as much as possible. I had already lost respect for him, and for good reason, and since I knew that he would die if he didn't become a JW, I just lived my life like I always had--without him.
Don't get me wrong. He always made certain that we had shoes on our feet, enough clothing to get by on, and some food on the table. But, we lived a very meager existence, so he could gamble and "play" with his buddies. I longed so much for his caring guidance. I longed for him to hug me or give me a kiss. I would cry and feel sorry for myself. When I was little, I began to try to figure out why things were as they were. I thought maybe I was adopted, --or perhaps I wasn't even his child!
There were times we interacted of course, but it was so strained and uncomfortable for me. But, when he got old, he came around. He finally was able to tell me he loved me and to say he was sorry for the way things had been all my growing up years, when he never really took part in being a parent. He was about to enter the hospital for heart surgery at the time, and he was sobbing on the phone. It was easy to forgive him. But, alas, I could not reclaim that which I had already lost. He was still so much of a stranger to me. He is gone now, having died Jan. 31,'01 of a massive hemorrage in his heart. He had suffered so much. His years of overindulgence and not taking care of himself had finally caught up with him. But, he was my father, and so I give him that respect.
Perhaps there is still some hope that your father will contact you and want to see you and mend the fences, so to speak. I often find myself trying to put the way I feel into the way I think other's should feel, and that just isn't realistic. He is a human being and you are his child. How can he not love you, I ask myself.
Who knows how he would have reacted if you had just grabbed ahold of him, calling him dad, and letting him know you were very much alive, and doing very well...But, I suppose with all that he has done to you, he should be the one to make the first move.
I wish you all the best in resolving this most sensitive issue. Sometimes, we just have to leave some people behind, because they do more harm to us than good.
Love and Light,
Karen/Sentinel
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22
Soon... very soon
by Elsewhere inany day now.. just around the corner.
sooner than you think.
i'm sick of hearing that from my dad.. "as every one knows, there are mistakes in the bible" - the watchtower, april 15, 1928, p. 126 .
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Sentinel
Could this possibly be the rain we all need so badly on the East Coast!
It sounds just like the weatherman.