Posts by waton

45

River flowing from the garden of Eden

by joey jojo in

hey there.. if this point has been covered before please forgive me.. i have had the principles of noahs flood used by jw's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.. genesis states that a river flowed from eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the tigris and the euphrates.. heres the baffling part; if it had never rained before, how is it that rivers existed before the flood?!!?.

a brief google search tells us that the euphrates begins its journey as snow melt and rain ( as most rivers do) in mountains in turkey.. ecc chapter 1 mentions the water cycle and describes the rivers flowing into the sea but the sea not becoming full.

how did it work pre-flood?

waton

SKDitta, Carrying the mythology of those swords into modern warfare is stretching it, let us keep it in the "talking snake book" shall we? The bible story identifies the swords at Eden's entrances to be repellent to the access to the tree of life watered by the river. in Rev 20/21, the denouement, The gates are guarded by angels again, barring the access to the river, and trees of life, for the unworthy. so, River in Eden, River in the 1000 year paradise.

impossible rivers, as this thread showed.

18

Dutch Elections

by Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu in

voters are going to the polls in the netherlands in the first of three crucial eurozone elections this year.

.

the voter turnout might set a new record.. what do you hope will be the result?.

waton

Rutte's tough stand against the Turks probably cost Wilders. He outwildered the real one.

The bill for lack of identifying the real dangers ahead, will come in later. Perhaps foreign powers will not be stopped again.

Rotterdam is less than 50% original Dutch. it is not called Rotterdam for nothing.

PS there are moves underway to give full voting rights to migrants in Europe, migrants voting in elections for their home countries, voting in their host countries, Migrants outvoting the nation builders out of their nests.

28

Were You Ever A True Believer?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i was raised in the religion and for the most part believed that my religion was truth.

i recognized some mistakes were occasionally made but felt that nobody is perfect.

then i smartened up and realized how dumb so many of the beliefs are....was there ever a time that you truly believed you had the "truth"?.

waton

"--.I turned it down and started my long fade. sparkyone:

I like that I turned down to become a circuit overseer (you will never have financial problem again).

28

Were You Ever A True Believer?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i was raised in the religion and for the most part believed that my religion was truth.

i recognized some mistakes were occasionally made but felt that nobody is perfect.

then i smartened up and realized how dumb so many of the beliefs are....was there ever a time that you truly believed you had the "truth"?.

waton

self-taught true believer (never had the mandatory bible indoctrination "study"), believing that the peaceful world was coming, that the "truth" was work in progress. special pioneer, in foreign language field for decades. not realizing as I do now, that the very basic premises, --(even of pre-watchtower vintage)--not only the late developments.-- are simply wrong.

15

God’s name (Jehovah) is so ambiguous to the extent of even supporting The Theory of Evolution!

by venus in

we have been taught that the name jehovah means “he causes to become.” it is interpreted that he causes himself to become whatever needed to accomplish his will—as happened in the case israelites to whom he “caused himself to become” a savior leading them from slavery in egypt.. but there is a problem with this definition.

nobody would use the phrase “cause to become” with regard to himself.

one may say: “i helped him,” (but he won’t say: “i caused myself to become a helper to him.”) “causing myself to become a helper to another person” obviously implies helping nature comes with effort as though it is not in my nature.

waton

wt has linked that idea to the 4 different faces of the angelic creatures at the corners of the divine chariot moving erratically at right angles, bringing different faces, qualities into the forefront, the bull* for strength (to the exclusion of intelligence) , for example.

Would that not be one of the least stable personality types?

* it is not called "bull" for nothing.

16

EU court upholds an employer's right to ban religious symbols

by careful in

first i should say that i do not like islam for multiple reasons, not the least of which is the moslem treatment of women.

still, the free exercise of anyone's peaceful observance of their religion, including moslems, trumps my personal preferences.

also, living in america, i evidently enjoy a greater degree of religious liberty than i see in recent years in continental europe, something that continues to baffle me.. today the european court of justice, the same group that has stood up for the rights of jws, has decreed that it is ok for employers to ban the wearing of religious symbols among employees.

waton

Everybody in Europe is free to believe and worship as they wish.

but in many areas they do so at their own peril. But for example, given the admirers of Kleptus freer reign has meant others have to make unwilling sacrifices.

45

River flowing from the garden of Eden

by joey jojo in

hey there.. if this point has been covered before please forgive me.. i have had the principles of noahs flood used by jw's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.. genesis states that a river flowed from eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the tigris and the euphrates.. heres the baffling part; if it had never rained before, how is it that rivers existed before the flood?!!?.

a brief google search tells us that the euphrates begins its journey as snow melt and rain ( as most rivers do) in mountains in turkey.. ecc chapter 1 mentions the water cycle and describes the rivers flowing into the sea but the sea not becoming full.

how did it work pre-flood?

waton

Venus, I merely provided the reference about rain only 6000 years old, in response to stillin's question, I do not attach any imortence or veracity to any of the details of the talking snake story, it is an an interesting guideline for debunking, no more imho.The flood is a dud. eden's rivers refuted.

Jesus' sacrifice really overcame belatedly the swords, no more.

45

River flowing from the garden of Eden

by joey jojo in

hey there.. if this point has been covered before please forgive me.. i have had the principles of noahs flood used by jw's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.. genesis states that a river flowed from eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the tigris and the euphrates.. heres the baffling part; if it had never rained before, how is it that rivers existed before the flood?!!?.

a brief google search tells us that the euphrates begins its journey as snow melt and rain ( as most rivers do) in mountains in turkey.. ecc chapter 1 mentions the water cycle and describes the rivers flowing into the sea but the sea not becoming full.

how did it work pre-flood?

waton

yeah, they must have surely provided a way past those pesky twirling swords at the entrances?

The rivers of Eden have "nurtured" beliefs in civilization. That surely must count for something!

46

How many years did you waste away in the Org?

by Tallon in

in my case; 27 years.

7 of which were as a ministerial serpent ... sorry, i mean 'servant' ;).

waton

time was not wasted, but years wasted away intellectually: 60 and counting, since we can not really get into the nitty gritty to do combat with the "best " of what the GB-wt-fd&s, "glorious ones" have to offer,--, without consequences.

45

River flowing from the garden of Eden

by joey jojo in

hey there.. if this point has been covered before please forgive me.. i have had the principles of noahs flood used by jw's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.. genesis states that a river flowed from eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the tigris and the euphrates.. heres the baffling part; if it had never rained before, how is it that rivers existed before the flood?!!?.

a brief google search tells us that the euphrates begins its journey as snow melt and rain ( as most rivers do) in mountains in turkey.. ecc chapter 1 mentions the water cycle and describes the rivers flowing into the sea but the sea not becoming full.

how did it work pre-flood?

waton

it would suggest that without evaporation, spring fed rivers would overflow the oceans. An ever expanding ocean would also contradict Job (I think) that discusses the tidal boundaries. jjj:

Bravo, Very good reasoning, however, there also could be, and there is. in a limited way a water cycle, where subterranean rivers feed springs that are powered by geothermal effects. On a large scale lakes , oceans, perhaps,- need not overflow, if enough syphoning occurred.

It is important to keep these " deluge delusion" discussions in good physics, avoiding false arguments, like Noah would freeze to death at the altitude of Everest, when in fact Everest would be at sea level + heat from the waterfall energy release.