self-taught true believer (never had the mandatory bible indoctrination "study"), believing that the peaceful world was coming, that the "truth" was work in progress. special pioneer, in foreign language field for decades. not realizing as I do now, that the very basic premises, --(even of pre-watchtower vintage)--not only the late developments.-- are simply wrong.
Posts by waton
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28Were You Ever A True Believer?
by minimus ini was raised in the religion and for the most part believed that my religion was truth.
i recognized some mistakes were occasionally made but felt that nobody is perfect.
then i smartened up and realized how dumb so many of the beliefs are....was there ever a time that you truly believed you had the "truth"?.
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God’s name (Jehovah) is so ambiguous to the extent of even supporting The Theory of Evolution!
by venus inwe have been taught that the name jehovah means “he causes to become.” it is interpreted that he causes himself to become whatever needed to accomplish his will—as happened in the case israelites to whom he “caused himself to become” a savior leading them from slavery in egypt.. but there is a problem with this definition.
nobody would use the phrase “cause to become” with regard to himself.
one may say: “i helped him,” (but he won’t say: “i caused myself to become a helper to him.”) “causing myself to become a helper to another person” obviously implies helping nature comes with effort as though it is not in my nature.
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waton
wt has linked that idea to the 4 different faces of the angelic creatures at the corners of the divine chariot moving erratically at right angles, bringing different faces, qualities into the forefront, the bull* for strength (to the exclusion of intelligence) , for example.
Would that not be one of the least stable personality types?
* it is not called "bull" for nothing.
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EU court upholds an employer's right to ban religious symbols
by careful infirst i should say that i do not like islam for multiple reasons, not the least of which is the moslem treatment of women.
still, the free exercise of anyone's peaceful observance of their religion, including moslems, trumps my personal preferences.
also, living in america, i evidently enjoy a greater degree of religious liberty than i see in recent years in continental europe, something that continues to baffle me.. today the european court of justice, the same group that has stood up for the rights of jws, has decreed that it is ok for employers to ban the wearing of religious symbols among employees.
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waton
Everybody in Europe is free to believe and worship as they wish.
but in many areas they do so at their own peril. But for example, given the admirers of Kleptus freer reign has meant others have to make unwilling sacrifices.
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45
River flowing from the garden of Eden
by joey jojo inhey there.. if this point has been covered before please forgive me.. i have had the principles of noahs flood used by jw's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.. genesis states that a river flowed from eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the tigris and the euphrates.. heres the baffling part; if it had never rained before, how is it that rivers existed before the flood?!!?.
a brief google search tells us that the euphrates begins its journey as snow melt and rain ( as most rivers do) in mountains in turkey.. ecc chapter 1 mentions the water cycle and describes the rivers flowing into the sea but the sea not becoming full.
how did it work pre-flood?
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waton
Venus, I merely provided the reference about rain only 6000 years old, in response to stillin's question, I do not attach any imortence or veracity to any of the details of the talking snake story, it is an an interesting guideline for debunking, no more imho.The flood is a dud. eden's rivers refuted.
Jesus' sacrifice really overcame belatedly the swords, no more.
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River flowing from the garden of Eden
by joey jojo inhey there.. if this point has been covered before please forgive me.. i have had the principles of noahs flood used by jw's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.. genesis states that a river flowed from eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the tigris and the euphrates.. heres the baffling part; if it had never rained before, how is it that rivers existed before the flood?!!?.
a brief google search tells us that the euphrates begins its journey as snow melt and rain ( as most rivers do) in mountains in turkey.. ecc chapter 1 mentions the water cycle and describes the rivers flowing into the sea but the sea not becoming full.
how did it work pre-flood?
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waton
yeah, they must have surely provided a way past those pesky twirling swords at the entrances?
The rivers of Eden have "nurtured" beliefs in civilization. That surely must count for something!
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46
How many years did you waste away in the Org?
by Tallon inin my case; 27 years.
7 of which were as a ministerial serpent ... sorry, i mean 'servant' ;).
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waton
time was not wasted, but years wasted away intellectually: 60 and counting, since we can not really get into the nitty gritty to do combat with the "best " of what the GB-wt-fd&s, "glorious ones" have to offer,--, without consequences.
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45
River flowing from the garden of Eden
by joey jojo inhey there.. if this point has been covered before please forgive me.. i have had the principles of noahs flood used by jw's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.. genesis states that a river flowed from eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the tigris and the euphrates.. heres the baffling part; if it had never rained before, how is it that rivers existed before the flood?!!?.
a brief google search tells us that the euphrates begins its journey as snow melt and rain ( as most rivers do) in mountains in turkey.. ecc chapter 1 mentions the water cycle and describes the rivers flowing into the sea but the sea not becoming full.
how did it work pre-flood?
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waton
it would suggest that without evaporation, spring fed rivers would overflow the oceans. An ever expanding ocean would also contradict Job (I think) that discusses the tidal boundaries. jjj:
Bravo, Very good reasoning, however, there also could be, and there is. in a limited way a water cycle, where subterranean rivers feed springs that are powered by geothermal effects. On a large scale lakes , oceans, perhaps,- need not overflow, if enough syphoning occurred.
It is important to keep these " deluge delusion" discussions in good physics, avoiding false arguments, like Noah would freeze to death at the altitude of Everest, when in fact Everest would be at sea level + heat from the waterfall energy release.
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River flowing from the garden of Eden
by joey jojo inhey there.. if this point has been covered before please forgive me.. i have had the principles of noahs flood used by jw's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.. genesis states that a river flowed from eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the tigris and the euphrates.. heres the baffling part; if it had never rained before, how is it that rivers existed before the flood?!!?.
a brief google search tells us that the euphrates begins its journey as snow melt and rain ( as most rivers do) in mountains in turkey.. ecc chapter 1 mentions the water cycle and describes the rivers flowing into the sea but the sea not becoming full.
how did it work pre-flood?
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waton
smiddy, I am not defending the discredited bible account, just citing it to prove it's wrongness.
Mist of course is a condensation due to the higher relative humidity in an air mass that has been cooled near the ground by radiating into the ~ 5 Kelvin temperature of space overhead. As I mentioned, the Colorado and other rivers have been running and cutting through rock for millions of years, never mind the 6000 years of bible's-human existence.
PS: There is much water underground in aquifers, and it percolates up in springs, geysers, and not just in Iceland, Yellowstone but also NZ?
not endorsing, but refuting. through sarcasm.
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69
What food are you grateful for?
by punkofnice ini'll start: stilton cheese.. (it was a toss up between that and sweet pickled beetroot).. thank you folks..
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waton
Many have lived on 1200 calories for some length of time, after that, most foods are heavenly, but mostly the soul foods of our home countries, I wonder why germans call their layer cakes "Torte", there isn't anything wrong with it. For me, the crust of German rye with camembert cheese.
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45
River flowing from the garden of Eden
by joey jojo inhey there.. if this point has been covered before please forgive me.. i have had the principles of noahs flood used by jw's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.. genesis states that a river flowed from eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the tigris and the euphrates.. heres the baffling part; if it had never rained before, how is it that rivers existed before the flood?!!?.
a brief google search tells us that the euphrates begins its journey as snow melt and rain ( as most rivers do) in mountains in turkey.. ecc chapter 1 mentions the water cycle and describes the rivers flowing into the sea but the sea not becoming full.
how did it work pre-flood?
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waton
Gen. 2:5,6: "-- God had not made it rain upon the ground -- but a mist would go up from the Earth and it watered the entire surface of the ground. 7: and God formed man --"
Make no mistake about it, it was a mist, in case you missed it, Your word is truth: Up to the time of humans,~ 6000 years ago, no rain.