waton

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Posts by waton

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  16

  EU court upholds an employer's right to ban religious symbols

  by careful in

  1. social
  2. current

  first i should say that i do not like islam for multiple reasons, not the least of which is the moslem treatment of women.

  still, the free exercise of anyone's peaceful observance of their religion, including moslems, trumps my personal preferences.

  also, living in america, i evidently enjoy a greater degree of religious liberty than i see in recent years in continental europe, something that continues to baffle me.. today the european court of justice, the same group that has stood up for the rights of jws, has decreed that it is ok for employers to ban the wearing of religious symbols among employees.

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  waton

  Everybody in Europe is free to believe and worship as they wish.

  but in many areas they do so at their own peril. But for example, given the admirers of Kleptus freer reign has meant others have to make unwilling sacrifices.
  
  
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  45

  River flowing from the garden of Eden

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hey there.. if this point has been covered before please forgive me.. i have had the principles of noahs flood used by jw's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.. genesis states that a river flowed from eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the tigris and the euphrates.. heres the baffling part; if it had never rained before, how is it that rivers existed before the flood?!!?.

  a brief google search tells us that the euphrates begins its journey as snow melt and rain ( as most rivers do) in mountains in turkey.. ecc chapter 1 mentions the water cycle and describes the rivers flowing into the sea but the sea not becoming full.

  how did it work pre-flood?

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  waton

  Venus, I merely provided the reference about rain only 6000 years old, in response to stillin's question, I do not attach any imortence or veracity to any of the details of the talking snake story, it is an an interesting guideline for debunking, no more imho.The flood is a dud. eden's rivers refuted.

  Jesus' sacrifice really overcame belatedly the swords, no more.
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  45

  River flowing from the garden of Eden

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hey there.. if this point has been covered before please forgive me.. i have had the principles of noahs flood used by jw's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.. genesis states that a river flowed from eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the tigris and the euphrates.. heres the baffling part; if it had never rained before, how is it that rivers existed before the flood?!!?.

  a brief google search tells us that the euphrates begins its journey as snow melt and rain ( as most rivers do) in mountains in turkey.. ecc chapter 1 mentions the water cycle and describes the rivers flowing into the sea but the sea not becoming full.

  how did it work pre-flood?

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  waton

  yeah, they must have surely provided a way past those pesky twirling swords at the entrances?

  The rivers of Eden have "nurtured" beliefs in civilization. That surely must count for something!
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  46

  How many years did you waste away in the Org?

  by Tallon in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  in my case; 27 years.

  7 of which were as a ministerial serpent ... sorry, i mean 'servant' ;).

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  waton

  time was not wasted, but years wasted away intellectually: 60 and counting, since we can not really get into the nitty gritty to do combat with the "best " of what the GB-wt-fd&s, "glorious ones" have to offer,--, without consequences.
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  45

  River flowing from the garden of Eden

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hey there.. if this point has been covered before please forgive me.. i have had the principles of noahs flood used by jw's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.. genesis states that a river flowed from eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the tigris and the euphrates.. heres the baffling part; if it had never rained before, how is it that rivers existed before the flood?!!?.

  a brief google search tells us that the euphrates begins its journey as snow melt and rain ( as most rivers do) in mountains in turkey.. ecc chapter 1 mentions the water cycle and describes the rivers flowing into the sea but the sea not becoming full.

  how did it work pre-flood?

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  waton

  it would suggest that without evaporation, spring fed rivers would overflow the oceans. An ever expanding ocean would also contradict Job (I think) that discusses the tidal boundaries. jjj:

  Bravo, Very good reasoning, however, there also could be, and there is. in a limited way a water cycle, where subterranean rivers feed springs that are powered by geothermal effects. On a large scale lakes , oceans, perhaps,- need not overflow, if enough syphoning occurred.

  It is important to keep these " deluge delusion" discussions in good physics, avoiding false arguments, like Noah would freeze to death at the altitude of Everest, when in fact Everest would be at sea level + heat from the waterfall energy release.
  
  
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  45

  River flowing from the garden of Eden

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hey there.. if this point has been covered before please forgive me.. i have had the principles of noahs flood used by jw's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.. genesis states that a river flowed from eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the tigris and the euphrates.. heres the baffling part; if it had never rained before, how is it that rivers existed before the flood?!!?.

  a brief google search tells us that the euphrates begins its journey as snow melt and rain ( as most rivers do) in mountains in turkey.. ecc chapter 1 mentions the water cycle and describes the rivers flowing into the sea but the sea not becoming full.

  how did it work pre-flood?

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• 

  waton

  smiddy, I am not defending the discredited bible account, just citing it to prove it's wrongness.

  Mist of course is a condensation due to the higher relative humidity in an air mass that has been cooled near the ground by radiating into the ~ 5 Kelvin temperature of space overhead. As I mentioned, the Colorado and other rivers have been running and cutting through rock for millions of years, never mind the 6000 years of bible's-human existence.

  PS: There is much water underground in aquifers, and it percolates up in springs, geysers, and not just in Iceland, Yellowstone but also NZ?

  not endorsing, but refuting. through sarcasm.
  
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  69

  What food are you grateful for?

  by punkofnice in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'll start: stilton cheese.. (it was a toss up between that and sweet pickled beetroot).. thank you folks..

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  waton

  Many have lived on 1200 calories for some length of time, after that, most foods are heavenly, but mostly the soul foods of our home countries, I wonder why germans call their layer cakes "Torte", there isn't anything wrong with it. For me, the crust of German rye with camembert cheese.
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  45

  River flowing from the garden of Eden

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hey there.. if this point has been covered before please forgive me.. i have had the principles of noahs flood used by jw's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.. genesis states that a river flowed from eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the tigris and the euphrates.. heres the baffling part; if it had never rained before, how is it that rivers existed before the flood?!!?.

  a brief google search tells us that the euphrates begins its journey as snow melt and rain ( as most rivers do) in mountains in turkey.. ecc chapter 1 mentions the water cycle and describes the rivers flowing into the sea but the sea not becoming full.

  how did it work pre-flood?

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• 

  waton

  Gen. 2:5,6: "-- God had not made it rain upon the ground -- but a mist would go up from the Earth and it watered the entire surface of the ground. 7: and God formed man --"

  Make no mistake about it, it was a mist, in case you missed it, Your word is truth: Up to the time of humans,~ 6000 years ago, no rain.
• 
  45

  River flowing from the garden of Eden

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hey there.. if this point has been covered before please forgive me.. i have had the principles of noahs flood used by jw's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.. genesis states that a river flowed from eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the tigris and the euphrates.. heres the baffling part; if it had never rained before, how is it that rivers existed before the flood?!!?.

  a brief google search tells us that the euphrates begins its journey as snow melt and rain ( as most rivers do) in mountains in turkey.. ecc chapter 1 mentions the water cycle and describes the rivers flowing into the sea but the sea not becoming full.

  how did it work pre-flood?

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• 

  waton

  pre-flood world jjj:

  If you look at pictures of excessive rain, it changes the landscape. If the 40 days Noachian rain flooded Mt everest, at the rate of 8 meters an hour, what would be left of a fertile plot like Eden? The Colorado river of Grand Canyon fame has reversed directions in it's life time. The rivers are older than the mountains, so:

  The bible is a story, the wt saga is a story about stories, Think outside that narrow envelope, a suggestion.

  added: maybe there was no rain where the first bible documents where written, but it rained,- snowed in many place.(think Glaciers covering Europe, North America.)

  of course, any Eden worth it's name would have hot springs,- right ? water coming up, not down.
  
  
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  6

  Take a second look over my shoulder

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i am about halfway through the first draft of my study into the evolution of judaeo-christian soteriology.. while it is fashionable to disagree with the beliefs of "other" religions, be it the watchtower, mormons or islam, consistency requires the same position must be applied to any and all belief systems.

  my study is not aimed specifically at the watchtower, although much of it will prove uncomfortable for jws.. i recommend that if a person's faith is weak, they should not read my study.

  they should limit their reading to books and articles that support the beliefs they already hold.

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  waton

  '-- sitz im leben – Doug:

  or in my case : Sitzfleisch?

  I am very impressed with the work you are doing. Time is running out for me though, and I can not share your erudite fascination with salvation.

  all the best, I just do not have enough Sitzfleisch in my "--sitz im leben--".