Posts by waton

45

River flowing from the garden of Eden

by joey jojo in

hey there.. if this point has been covered before please forgive me.. i have had the principles of noahs flood used by jw's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.. genesis states that a river flowed from eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the tigris and the euphrates.. heres the baffling part; if it had never rained before, how is it that rivers existed before the flood?!!?.

a brief google search tells us that the euphrates begins its journey as snow melt and rain ( as most rivers do) in mountains in turkey.. ecc chapter 1 mentions the water cycle and describes the rivers flowing into the sea but the sea not becoming full.

how did it work pre-flood?

waton

it would suggest that without evaporation, spring fed rivers would overflow the oceans. An ever expanding ocean would also contradict Job (I think) that discusses the tidal boundaries. jjj:

Bravo, Very good reasoning, however, there also could be, and there is. in a limited way a water cycle, where subterranean rivers feed springs that are powered by geothermal effects. On a large scale lakes , oceans, perhaps,- need not overflow, if enough syphoning occurred.

It is important to keep these " deluge delusion" discussions in good physics, avoiding false arguments, like Noah would freeze to death at the altitude of Everest, when in fact Everest would be at sea level + heat from the waterfall energy release.

45

River flowing from the garden of Eden

by joey jojo in

hey there.. if this point has been covered before please forgive me.. i have had the principles of noahs flood used by jw's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.. genesis states that a river flowed from eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the tigris and the euphrates.. heres the baffling part; if it had never rained before, how is it that rivers existed before the flood?!!?.

a brief google search tells us that the euphrates begins its journey as snow melt and rain ( as most rivers do) in mountains in turkey.. ecc chapter 1 mentions the water cycle and describes the rivers flowing into the sea but the sea not becoming full.

how did it work pre-flood?

waton

smiddy, I am not defending the discredited bible account, just citing it to prove it's wrongness.

Mist of course is a condensation due to the higher relative humidity in an air mass that has been cooled near the ground by radiating into the ~ 5 Kelvin temperature of space overhead. As I mentioned, the Colorado and other rivers have been running and cutting through rock for millions of years, never mind the 6000 years of bible's-human existence.

PS: There is much water underground in aquifers, and it percolates up in springs, geysers, and not just in Iceland, Yellowstone but also NZ?

not endorsing, but refuting. through sarcasm.

69

What food are you grateful for?

by punkofnice in

jw
friends

i'll start: stilton cheese.. (it was a toss up between that and sweet pickled beetroot).. thank you folks..

waton

Many have lived on 1200 calories for some length of time, after that, most foods are heavenly, but mostly the soul foods of our home countries, I wonder why germans call their layer cakes "Torte", there isn't anything wrong with it. For me, the crust of German rye with camembert cheese.

45

River flowing from the garden of Eden

by joey jojo in

hey there.. if this point has been covered before please forgive me.. i have had the principles of noahs flood used by jw's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.. genesis states that a river flowed from eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the tigris and the euphrates.. heres the baffling part; if it had never rained before, how is it that rivers existed before the flood?!!?.

a brief google search tells us that the euphrates begins its journey as snow melt and rain ( as most rivers do) in mountains in turkey.. ecc chapter 1 mentions the water cycle and describes the rivers flowing into the sea but the sea not becoming full.

how did it work pre-flood?

waton

Gen. 2:5,6: "-- God had not made it rain upon the ground -- but a mist would go up from the Earth and it watered the entire surface of the ground. 7: and God formed man --"

Make no mistake about it, it was a mist, in case you missed it, Your word is truth: Up to the time of humans,~ 6000 years ago, no rain.

45

River flowing from the garden of Eden

by joey jojo in

hey there.. if this point has been covered before please forgive me.. i have had the principles of noahs flood used by jw's to encourage me to attend meetings recently and this has got me musing about the flood....again.. genesis states that a river flowed from eden and branched out into four rivers, two of which being the tigris and the euphrates.. heres the baffling part; if it had never rained before, how is it that rivers existed before the flood?!!?.

a brief google search tells us that the euphrates begins its journey as snow melt and rain ( as most rivers do) in mountains in turkey.. ecc chapter 1 mentions the water cycle and describes the rivers flowing into the sea but the sea not becoming full.

how did it work pre-flood?

waton

pre-flood world jjj:

If you look at pictures of excessive rain, it changes the landscape. If the 40 days Noachian rain flooded Mt everest, at the rate of 8 meters an hour, what would be left of a fertile plot like Eden? The Colorado river of Grand Canyon fame has reversed directions in it's life time. The rivers are older than the mountains, so:

The bible is a story, the wt saga is a story about stories, Think outside that narrow envelope, a suggestion.

added: maybe there was no rain where the first bible documents where written, but it rained,- snowed in many place.(think Glaciers covering Europe, North America.)

of course, any Eden worth it's name would have hot springs,- right ? water coming up, not down.

6

Take a second look over my shoulder

by Doug Mason in

i am about halfway through the first draft of my study into the evolution of judaeo-christian soteriology.. while it is fashionable to disagree with the beliefs of "other" religions, be it the watchtower, mormons or islam, consistency requires the same position must be applied to any and all belief systems.

my study is not aimed specifically at the watchtower, although much of it will prove uncomfortable for jws.. i recommend that if a person's faith is weak, they should not read my study.

they should limit their reading to books and articles that support the beliefs they already hold.

waton

'-- sitz im leben – Doug:

or in my case : Sitzfleisch?

I am very impressed with the work you are doing. Time is running out for me though, and I can not share your erudite fascination with salvation.

all the best, I just do not have enough Sitzfleisch in my "--sitz im leben--".

1

SWITZERLAND: Thousands of sexual assaults in JWs

by darkspilver in

another major article regardng the report into sex abuse in the jws that was published a week ago.

tages anzeiger, 6 march 2017. thousands of sexual assaults in jehovah's witnesses.

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/panorama/vermischtes/tausende-sexuelle-uebergriffe-bei-den-zeugen-jehovas/story/22658338.

waton

bad as it is, the headline above is slightly misleading, the Article is mainly about "Laender" = countries, and not Switzerland, where you would of course expect thousands of pedophiles to be present, as a proportion of the population.

50

Pharaoh tries to kill all male babies - later Moses orders the very same thing!

by George One Time in

so many things that i just discoved about the bible.. .

so from the book my book of bible stories, we all know how little moses was saved from a cruel pharaoh.

of course the king of egypt was afraid that those cute little babies would endanger his empire eventually.

waton

and before that, every first born, likely many of them very young, were killed by the angel that passed over during the passover fly-by mission,

specifically targeted, not collateral damage like in London, Coventry , Dresden, Hiroshima, Aleppo.

18

"Overlapping Generation" is a "Spiritual Generation" - a letter to the governing body

by jwleaks in

11 march 2017. dear governing body of jehovah's witnesses,.

could you please introduce the phrase "spiritual generation" to replace the phrase "overlapping generation".

it would save us all a lot of confusion.. an online search of your publications dating back to 2000 showed that this term has never been used.. http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/s/r1/lp-e?q="spiritual+generation"&p=par.

waton

if you have an overlap, there also has to be an underlap, so, if the 1st resurrection started in 1918, we can wonder how Fr. Franz now feels that he has been underlapped, discredited in all his improper spiritual feeding at the wrong time? spiritual generation indeed.

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

waton

I was not asking for anything big, just of a replication of abilities claimed earlier, but channeled into some useful task, rather than evening the score with the supposed prior genocide of male jewish babies.