Posts by stavro

556

The Watchtower are Right About Blood...

by cofty in

... but, they fail to take note of one important detail.. i believe that if we are going to have any chance of reasoning with a jw about blood, this is the place we need to begin.. don't try to convince them that it was only a dietary law.

it wasn't, and they will never go along with it.. don't tell them that saving a life is more important than obeying a law, even a seemingly trivial one.

they take pride in obedience.

stavro

Cofty not only would they grasp it immediately, they would hail it as one of the most glorious flashes of divine light ever to be bestowed upon the organisation.

The funny thing is, It actually makes God seem like he knew what he was doing all along. God comes out of this looking good. There is nothing negative about it. Well the only negative thing is that it is you and not them that is saying it.

Fisherman has done everyone a favor by trying desperately to find holes in it. He has proven just how logical and watertight the argument is.

His refusal to answer your question demonstrates his need to avoid understanding why God even talked about blood in the first place. This is irresponsible! makes a mockery out of God and ultimately results in the needless loss of life.

556

The Watchtower are Right About Blood...

by cofty in

... but, they fail to take note of one important detail.. i believe that if we are going to have any chance of reasoning with a jw about blood, this is the place we need to begin.. don't try to convince them that it was only a dietary law.

it wasn't, and they will never go along with it.. don't tell them that saving a life is more important than obeying a law, even a seemingly trivial one.

they take pride in obedience.

stavro

Fisherman you can't interpret God's laws concerning blood without first understanding why he had a law concerning blood in the first place. If you view all blood as being sacred, no matter where it comes from, then it is normal you end up having to try and justify why the scriptures appear to be contradictory.

Starting with the view that blood only has value if a life has been taken, prevents the scriptures relating to blood from appearing to be contradictory in the first place. It is only God's view of blood and not the watchtower's, that's important.

I am struggling to understand what it is which prevents you from seeing this. Watchtower's reasoning on the subject makes God seem foolish, a God who makes laws just for the sake of it, without rhyme or reason. Cofty's explanation provides you with the means to be an intellectually satisfied christian.

Don't fool yourself, if the watchtower could go back in time and change their reasoning they would! Just because as an organisation they have dug themselves a hole too deep to crawl out of, doesn't mean that you personally have to crawl in after them.

If it was David Splane and not Cofty who presented this reasoning you would gladly accept it as superior new light and you would be out of that hole like a bolt of lightning.

Fisherman your loyalty to man over God is badly misplaced and may even end up in your needless loss of life or even the life of someone foolish enough to follow you.

556

The Watchtower are Right About Blood...

by cofty in

... but, they fail to take note of one important detail.. i believe that if we are going to have any chance of reasoning with a jw about blood, this is the place we need to begin.. don't try to convince them that it was only a dietary law.

it wasn't, and they will never go along with it.. don't tell them that saving a life is more important than obeying a law, even a seemingly trivial one.

they take pride in obedience.

stavro

Fisherman the strength in Cofty's argument lies in how God views blood. If he viewed the blood of an animal found dead in the same way as he viewed the carcass, then it explains why both eating the blood or touching the carcass only lead to uncleanness.

In the context of someone who is out hunting, (Lev. 17:13-17) the watchtower's statement that uncleanness was only a provision for someone who accidentally ate the dead animal is both desperate and laughable.

God only viewed blood as having value once a life was taken. It is only form this perspective that the scriptures relating to blood can be understood.

This is why Cofty's question, "Why is there a difference if as you assert, the blood of an animal that dies of itself is just as sacred as one that has been killed?" gets right to the heart of the issue.

43

Australian Jehovah's Witnesses are ignorant of the Australian Royal Commission

by stuckinarut2 in

many here have asked how the average witness in australia is taking the news of the arc findings and conclusions.. is it affecting them?.

sorry to say, hardly any are even aware of the facts.

those that are, have been convinced that all the publicity is "apostate lies and satanic propaganda".

stavro

Even if the average jw doesn't want to know, It is just as important that the public are aware, as they are potential future converts. You are not afraid to verify information before becoming a jw, only after do you become afraid.

22

The uptake...

by Thisismein1972 in

with recent events pointing at watchtower growth, i felt compelled to say a few words.. if the figures turn out to be true, then we should not be discouraged.

after 9/11 there was a surge in, not only the watchtower, but other demonisation of organised religion.

whenever there is a a paradigm shifting event that puts fear into others, this tends to have a life changing affect on an individual.. now let us zoom to the present.

stavro

If you are trying to help a loved one wake up from indoctrination then the yearly statistics can be a very useful tool.

It forces JWs to try any rationalize why no one except for the most uneducated, believe their scriptural interpretation of the bible? Jw doctrine has become more and more ludicrous over time. Time and not apostasy has become their worst enemy.

The problem facing the organisation is where the growth is consistently coming from! It is consistently the poorest most uneducated people who are naturally attracted to their promise of a better life. The statistics, combined with the need to simplify the publications, has been showing this clearly for some time now. These poor people can't help the organisation either financially or intellectually. All they can do is help increase the number of memorial partakers

So not only is the organisation leaking money they are also desperately leaking intelligent people! The level of intellect possessed by the current governing body and which was put on public display by the Australian Royal Commission, is a testament to this.

Jehovah said that time would reveal the truth about everything. Nothing can hide or escape from it. I think this is one prophecy we can all agree on.

22

The uptake...

by Thisismein1972 in

with recent events pointing at watchtower growth, i felt compelled to say a few words.. if the figures turn out to be true, then we should not be discouraged.

after 9/11 there was a surge in, not only the watchtower, but other demonisation of organised religion.

whenever there is a a paradigm shifting event that puts fear into others, this tends to have a life changing affect on an individual.. now let us zoom to the present.

stavro

As they spend nearly 2 billion man hours actively trying to recruit new members each year, it surely makes them the most active of all recruitment organisations on the planet. The fact that despite this monumental effort they can only grow by about 1 to 2 percent per annum is a testament to their failure to convince all but the most gullible, vulnerable and desperate. Their growth comes mainly from countries whose populations have a high percentage of these groups of people.

2

Love and compassion

by stavro in

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cornwall-37955748.

after watching this i asked myself the question, how did i ever believe jehovah was about to kill billions of people who have so much love and compassion in their hearts?.

stavro

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cornwall-37955748

After watching this I asked myself the question, how did I ever believe Jehovah was about to kill billions of people who have so much love and compassion in their hearts?

19

My gay friend went back to JWs?

by schnell in

one of my best friends was disfellowshipped several years ago, and word quickly got around that it was because he's gay.

we lost touch after that because of the disfellowshipping, but since i'm out now, i just found him online and got back in touch with him.

it was a great conversation, but he said he returned to jehovah.

stavro

Facing up to the reality of their own mortality can be too big a step for many people who have spent their lives believing wholeheartedly in everlasting life. Gay people also want to live forever in paradise.

30

GB "... it can make mistakes when explaining the Bible ..." Simplified version WT Feb 2017

by freddo in

study article: who is leading god's people today?

start of paragraph 12.. standard version: "the governing body is neither inspired nor infallible.

therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction.".

stavro

Standard version: "The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction."
Simplified version: "The Governing Body is neither inspired nor perfect. It can make mistakes when explaining the Bible or directing the organization."

They are admitting that potentially, they could have misinterpreted the scriptural cocktail they use in their attempt to prove they were appointed by God in 1919. Could it be they are actually just self appointed?

Where does wrong interpretation end and correct interpretation begin? As they admit they are not inspired by holy spirit, how can anyone truly know?

33

Update on U.S. Local Design/Construction Arrangement—November 2016

by wifibandit in

update on u.s. local design/construction arrangement—november 2016 video will be considered the week of november 7, 2016. english and spanish.

stavro

Shouting voice on: HELLO! THE PREACHING WORK WITH ITS JW MESSAGE IS A FAILURE! A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME!

Whatever suspicions people may have about their financial situation one thing is for certain, their construction plans indicate they are not forecasting a huge influx of new converts. Their actions are an indication they recognize that their message has failed to convince the masses, and will continue to fail to do so.