Posts by konceptual99

52

Australian Congregations announce Child Safeguarding Policy is available upon request

by wifibandit in

this week all congregations in australia have been instructed to make the following announcement:.

if a member of the congregation would like a copy of the child safeguarding policy of jehovah’s witnesses in australia, please see the coordinator of the body of elders or the secretary.. .

childsafeguardingpolicy-eau.pdf.

konceptual99

There will be no mention of how they were forced to do this - nor that the 2 witness rule still will make this difficult

The two witness rule applies to what action the elders can take in terms of congregation discipline. I would agree that there are still holes in this policy and it needs to be freely available as a notice board document and downloadable from jw.org but I don't think there is anything in there that restricts the reporting of an allegation to the authorities even in the event the elders cannot act right away due to the two witness rule.

The policy is clear that anyone can report an allegation. Of course it is limited in that there is no compulsion on the part of elders to be proactive in supporting this and I am still worried about the cultural norms of deference to the organisation trumping people's better moral judgement but I do think there is a step in the right direction of there being a separation of religious process and secular process.

52

Australian Congregations announce Child Safeguarding Policy is available upon request

by wifibandit in

this week all congregations in australia have been instructed to make the following announcement:.

if a member of the congregation would like a copy of the child safeguarding policy of jehovah’s witnesses in australia, please see the coordinator of the body of elders or the secretary.. .

childsafeguardingpolicy-eau.pdf.

konceptual99

Due to the serious and complex nature of the offense, rather than simply taking for granted that the abuser is repentant, I would say that the he or she should at least be required to attend accredited counseling sessions for a period of time. If he or she isn't willing to do that, then they aren't truly repentant.

To be fair there has been endless criticism of their approach that risks keeping it all within the congregation. The whole point is to get the authorities involved asap. If someone is accused of a crime then let the authorities deal with it. There is a strong chance they will end up be forcibly removed from the congregation to a cell. If someone is a convicted pedo and has been through the justice system then the authorities should be monitoring that person in terms of whatever rehab might be possible. The congregation need to then take steps to ensure that person cannot be a position where they could abuse a child.

ln my opinion, the new policy ( and other policies) should be left posted in the Hall and copies should be available to anyone who wants them without having to ask anyone. Members should be encouragement to review the policy(s) from time to time lest new parents or newly converted members be unaware of the past problem.

This of course is very true.

52

Australian Congregations announce Child Safeguarding Policy is available upon request

by wifibandit in

this week all congregations in australia have been instructed to make the following announcement:.

if a member of the congregation would like a copy of the child safeguarding policy of jehovah’s witnesses in australia, please see the coordinator of the body of elders or the secretary.. .

childsafeguardingpolicy-eau.pdf.

konceptual99

And, dang, did they learn nothing?
Only UNREPENTANT child abusers are disfellowshipped.
Say "sorry" and you're still good to go in the congregation.
Sigh...

Question is what do you really expect them to do? Are you saying that no one could be a Witness if they had been convicted of being a abuser? They are allowed to have jobs, travel, have relationships etc. so why would they be banned from ever being a Witness? They could be DF'ed but are you saying that they could never be reinstated? What about a study that wants to be baptised? Does being a pedo prevent them from being allowed in the hall? I'd love it to be the case but I don't think it's realistic.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the underlying sentiment however it's not DFing someone that keeps children safe. All it's done in the past is push the problem away from being any concern of the WTS. It's not a protection in itself.

What is a protection is someone being reported to and dealt with by the authorities. Congregation sanctions have done very little to protect children. Being arrested by the police has.

52

Australian Congregations announce Child Safeguarding Policy is available upon request

by wifibandit in

this week all congregations in australia have been instructed to make the following announcement:.

if a member of the congregation would like a copy of the child safeguarding policy of jehovah’s witnesses in australia, please see the coordinator of the body of elders or the secretary.. .

childsafeguardingpolicy-eau.pdf.

konceptual99

Good. It's not perfect. It should be downloadable from the web site but it's a big step in the right direction. Why this took so long to get even this far is madness but let's be thankful that Australia is the first place to do this and hopefully won't be the last.

My money is on the UK to preempt the current inquiry...

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

konceptual99

The sad thing is that for years I would have dismissed the questions raised by the OP as the result of not having an accurate knowledge of The Truth. I would have had a wry smile that Christendom could not answer these things yet here I was in possession of the full answers.

As the veil has been lifted it is clear that these questions can only be answered by theists by resorting to the supernatural, by claiming that the divine has answers we cannot grasp - a position I now totally reject.

When I speak about these things with my wife now I can sense the pity that somehow I have become blinded by the secular and fallen into a darkness where I can no longer see the blindingly obvious. When mysticism trumps logic then there can be no reasoning.

45

Does Anyone Know The "Real" Attitude That JWs Have Towards "Inactive Ones"?

by minimus in

jw
friends

does the rank and file or the elders view us as disassociated or disfellowshipped or simply "weak" or possibly a "prodigal son" type?.

konceptual99

It really depends.

Some people will basically shun anyone who they perceive of as being weak. Others will always at least be friendly.

Some will moderate their behaviour towards you based on what they think or know you to be doing in your life. If you are keeping very quiet, not doing things that might get you DFed then they might treat you better than if the opposite is true.

If they are family or former close friends then they may behave differently to others.

I think the worst is becoming known as someone with a gripe. That really does get you marked out to be avoided and, of course, you don't actually have to be moaning about anything at all. Simply asking a question or raised a point of criticism can be enough. They simply cannot cope with someone even very quietly simply saying "I don't accept this as a The Truth any more". It has to become something based around bitterness and complaint.

Illness or work dragging you away is OK but logical thought is not.

10

What Irony! Another Hall Closure!

by freddo in

jw
friends

note these excerpts from awake!

articles: (bold italics mine).

*** g93 9/8 pp.

konceptual99

The valleys are still grim then...

7

BRITAIN ZONE VISIT - 18th March 2017

by Nicholaus Kopernicus in

a. llewellyn – wt summary (“why modesty still matters”).

i won’t go into this much as an individual can read it for themselves and conclude as s(he) sees fit.

what i would say however, is that i remember llewellyn using phrases like “knowing your place in jehovah’s organisation” and “taking care not to act presumptuously”.

konceptual99

Thanks for the summary NK. I was thinking of doing one but I fell asleep in the WT. I had to smile through the stats and mentioned to my wife that I thought it was notable they did not mention that all that time spent had only had a net increase of less than 30 people.

I thought the talk was boring and wondered why he had bothered as well. Of course his real mission is to kick the branch into touch and remind the local committee they have to get rid of loads of people.

I can't wait to see the next video on Chelmsford. It will be amazing to see how lots of money + volunteer labour + outside contractors enables a building to be constructed over a period of several years. I suspect this is something that all the big contractors should be taking note of as they seem to struggle with similar engineering projects. I really don't know how they managed buildings like The Shard or engineering feats like the Channel Tunnel without Jehovah's blessing.

347

ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

by jwleaks in

all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

exhibit list.

joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

konceptual99

konceptual99 how do you feel that the transparency and cohesion should be rectified?

It really is simple RO.

Right now you have at least five levels.

The R&F have to read a bunch of articles from numerous publications to get a message that "child abuse is bad, we hate it" but not a lot else.

The elders have to read their manual, a bunch of letters and their own hand written notes to get a message that they should call the legal desk and follow what they are told to do.

Branches have to read their own manual which contains yet more process designed to protect the WTS.

The courts and bodies like the ARC get to listen to obsfucation and weasel words from people like Spinks and o'Toole.

The public get to see and read very little other than self certifying summaries on the website.

There is no single document that clearly documents the WTS policy on how they protect children, manage risk and respond to allegations of abuse.

The fact they are a global organisation operating in many jurisdictions makes no difference. The policy can be the same and allow for the local branch to advise elders on local requirements. It just needs to be visible to all. It just needs to be clear.

Is that too much to ask?

10

Why I Refused To Go To Gay Son's Wedding EXCLUSIVE

by darkspilver in

jw
friends

front page of the sunshine coast daily, friday 17 march 2017. yvonne, the mother of chris on bride and prejudice, has for the first time explained why she couldn't attend her gay son's wedding.

https://m.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/bride-and-prejudice-mum-denies-sons-church-control/3155773/.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5714189639221248/_post/5672317399072768.

konceptual99

The WTS has a written policy of involvement in choices ones make about wedding attendance. Showing support for a wedding of those getting married "out of the Lord" will likely result in losing privileges.