Posts by konceptual99

22

Kingdom Hall Renovation Question: Who Pays?

by breakfast of champions in

so last night it was announced at the local hall that the ldc had decided against building a new hall, and that the existing hall would be "renovated.

the prospect of a new hall has been dangled before this congregation for at least 10 years now.

in fact, the congregation had already purchased property, had approval from the rbc for a new hall.

konceptual99

This is happening time and time again. Congregations have been ponying up the funds for new halls for years only to have it grabbed by the LDC. They have then had to wait a couple of years and onwards now only to be told that nothing of substance will happen. As Stephane says, the onus for managing the maintenance of ageing facilities falls on the local congregation. This is no major problem for those congregations with more modern facilities but for those congregations with knackered halls then they are looking at fairly major works.

Alternatively, a hall is sold with the existing congregation told to go to another facility. This is exactly what has happened in Brighton. The funds from multiple congregations were grabbed, a facility put up for sale and no upgrades or new halls instigated even through the other halls were now getting more use.

23

Elders School 2017: New instructions to handle sexual abuses?

by sp74bb in

an informant in spanish forum, active elder in a congregation in madrid (spain) has posted new info regarding elders school 2017. important changes are to be done for "child" or sexual abuses.

https://abusostj.vbulletin.net/forum/main-forum/audiencias-judiciales/5506-escuela-de-ancianos-2017.

doing a summary:.

konceptual99

I am not sure where the implication that this means that anyone reporting an allegation would essentially be disassociating themselves comes from.

I understand the legalistic approach with blood transfusions that has been taken and I also know that historically pressure of judicial action has been actively and implicitly placed on individuals to keep stumm to protect the congregation and/or not repeat an allegation where only one witness is prepared to testify but the WTS has made it clear several times now that they consider it the absolute right of the victim to report an allegation to the authorities without sanction.

I am no apologist for the WTS on this and can see holes galore in their process and endemic cultural resistance to change on the matter but am not clear where the association between this current "cover your ass" move and disassociation comes.

9

Black Mirror TV Series

by Simon in

if you're looking for something new to watch, i can really recommend this show.

it's on netflix and there is a new series starting soon.

don't let "series" put you off - they are only 3 or 6 episodes long.. how to describe it?.

konceptual99

Charlie Brooker is only next to Chris Morris for quality of script writing this type of TV in my book.

23

Elders School 2017: New instructions to handle sexual abuses?

by sp74bb in

an informant in spanish forum, active elder in a congregation in madrid (spain) has posted new info regarding elders school 2017. important changes are to be done for "child" or sexual abuses.

https://abusostj.vbulletin.net/forum/main-forum/audiencias-judiciales/5506-escuela-de-ancianos-2017.

doing a summary:.

konceptual99

If this is true it represents yet another example of the legalistic approach of the WTS rather than simply looking to best practice and unilaterally reporting. Rather than allowing a truly pastoral environment of care, comfort and support it's one of yet more formalities, more "sign this", paper shuffling nonsense just so the onus for any progression with the authorities can be firmly thrown at the feet of the victim and their family.

This is not shepherding. It's project management.

42

UK Kingdom Halls for sale

by darkspilver in

jw
friends

" and a mighty cry went out over all the land: "sell !

sell !

konceptual99

Whilst most sub-urban Witnesses in the UK are not used to travelling great distances to halls and territory the majority suck up whatever inconvenience they are put through by the WTS. In my area for instance people have had to travel further whilst hall building has taken place. If they closed a couple of single congregation halls and made people travel then there would be some noises but ultimately very few would vote with their sofas and stop coming.

1

A brief overview of concepts of how life developed - from the UK BBC

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20161026-the-secret-of-how-life-on-earth-began.

konceptual99

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6348035359506432/great-bbc-article-on-abiogenesis

:whistle: :)

27

Have the Elders ever been instructed by their bethel to call the police for abuse?

by StephaneLaliberte in

right now, there are a lot of talks on this topic in quebec and, at the mid week meeting, they are reading the letter sent in 2002 where it states that the elders will call the authorities if the law forces them to.

the strange thing is, it looks like even when there are laws to that effect, jws seem to believe that it does not apply to them.

for instance, i know that they do not report anything in quebec, even if it is the law!

konceptual99

In principle I don't actually completely disagree with the instruction to call Bethel Legal in as much as there are potentially legal obligations and implications for the elders that they may not be aware of, especially in a country where local (e.g. state) laws and agencies may differ. The problem is that the WTS has a cultural deficiency in being able to understand what is the moral and ethical right course of action compared to what their legal obligations are. They would rather the government tell them what to do than even consider changing their policies to reflect the best practice being implemented by many other organisations.

This is a cultural meme that replicates itself through the hierarchy. It is why elders, some of whom are intelligent and thoughtful people, cannot find it in themselves to follow their conscience and take action even when not explicitly forbidden by their superiors at Bethel. It is why relatives of victims cannot take action as their deference to WTS culture overrides their own moral judgement. It's why loyal congregation members support the organisation and it's policies without ever questioning or considering that morals, ethics and conscience can override whatever the legal obligations of a organisation or individual may be.

31

Reveal releases outstanding audio w/Trey Bundy doing interviews. One is with a former Bethelite who cared for old GB members

by AndersonsInfo in

https://www.revealnews.org/episodes/secrets-of-the-watchtower/?utm_source=reveal&utm_medium=dist&utm_campaign=zalkin.

not only will you hear howie tran, former-bethelite, but irwin zalkins talks about watchtower's child abuse secrets.

debbie mcdaniels talks about her child abuse and you will hear trey actually talking to the jw who molested her..

konceptual99

Thanks for the heads up on this Barbara and JWLeaks. This was an excellent listen - well recommended.

27

Have the Elders ever been instructed by their bethel to call the police for abuse?

by StephaneLaliberte in

right now, there are a lot of talks on this topic in quebec and, at the mid week meeting, they are reading the letter sent in 2002 where it states that the elders will call the authorities if the law forces them to.

the strange thing is, it looks like even when there are laws to that effect, jws seem to believe that it does not apply to them.

for instance, i know that they do not report anything in quebec, even if it is the law!

konceptual99

The anonymous tipping of the police? Sorry, but this really sounds like something made up by loyals trying to make the watchtower look better. I cannot think of one valid reason why the society would need to be doing this anonymously, especially if it is the law.

I only mention anecdotal as I did not have first hand experience. I have had two elders (one was my father) relate experiences they have dealt with where they were advised they could report. This was in the case of minors at risk. There is no doubt this circumstance is rare and I am certainly not suggesting that there is any proactive response by the organisation when the question of the moral and ethical responsibilities of the elders is raised - the precisely opposite situation is the case in the 99% of cases, as shown by the first hand experiences on this thread.

There are specific instructions to report anonymously as evidenced by the internal Bethel memo posted as part of the ARC submissions. This only applies in the case where mandatory reporting is concerned.

The anonymous aspect of the reporting is typical Bethel legal nonsense designed to protect the organisation from being dragged into the matter in any manner.

27

Have the Elders ever been instructed by their bethel to call the police for abuse?

by StephaneLaliberte in

right now, there are a lot of talks on this topic in quebec and, at the mid week meeting, they are reading the letter sent in 2002 where it states that the elders will call the authorities if the law forces them to.

the strange thing is, it looks like even when there are laws to that effect, jws seem to believe that it does not apply to them.

for instance, i know that they do not report anything in quebec, even if it is the law!

konceptual99

The WT have written instructions used within Bethels where mandatory reporting is required that say elders are to report anonymously. I have heard anecdotal evidence of instructions being passed in other circumstances involving minors but I think this is very rare.