This is an interesting one to pull out at an opportune time. The insight book explanation is old light and has been since that WT yet I don't remember this change ever being picked up by anyone when this was studied or mentioned in subsequent reviews of changes published by the WTS. Thanks for resurrecting this thread.
konceptual99
JoinedPosts by konceptual99
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HERE'S A BOMBSHELL ABOUT THE 144,000 DOCTRINE......
by Mary injust when you think you've heard it all............in my research for my project, i was doing some digging around on the subject of the 144,000 and came across something in the wts's literature that absolutely stunned me and, being the generous soul that i am , wanted to pass it on to you to get your thoughts on this.. .
we all know that the society teaches that the 144,000 mentioned in revelation is speaking of "spiritual israel" and not 'fleshly israel' or even other christians in general right?
there are countless quotes throughout the literature that we are all familiar with that specifically state this, but to drive home a point, here are a few:.
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The "martydom" of witnesses!
by stuckinarut2 inarrrghh...it amazes me!.
i have just seen more witnesses from "my" congregation manning the "literature carts".. it is over 40c / 100f temp, with very high humidity as well... and there they are...in the heat...like martyrs....earning "god points".. they are being ignored by the very few passers by....all of whom are trying to get out of the heat.. what is the point!?!
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konceptual99
The main thing is that there is a massive total number of hours to print in the yearbook. -
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Remember Those in Full-Time Service (1945 - 2015)
by jwleaks inthe saddest story ever told.
despite being childhood sweethearts, in the year 1941 they decided to postpone marriage and remain single and childless in this system so as to put the the theocracy first, albeit under the control of the watch tower society.. in the final pages of the children book john and eunice walk silently through the fields and stop by a great tree on the river bank where they had sometime before discussed their future plans.
the young lovers seat themselves down and look over the landscape.
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konceptual99
Hi blondie,
I agree that the historical rhetoric of the WTS did lead many to "pursue singleness" but do you think this is the case today? There are plenty of single sisters around and I would bet good money on most of them being more than happy to be married but just can't find a bloke in the congregation.
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Just ask simple questions and make street witnesses move along
by OnTheWayOut inyou don't have to know much to talk to jw's and show them they don't want to really discuss the matters.they consider a discussion on the matter they are pushing to be "confrontational.".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfw_txpmsj8.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lqtadagucq.
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konceptual99
The use of a camera does show up that these Witnesses did not have much real depth of understanding of the creation/evolution debate. The control aspect is also evident. From that perspective I think it is great work.
On the other hand, I think that if one's goal is to sow seeds of TTATT then doing so without a camera would be more productive.
Regardless, often when a Witness is faced by someone with knowledge of a subject and the ability to debate the matter then they eventually want to move on. Even when having a discussion in a reasonable manner, if it is obvious that the person is not coming round to some acceptance of the JW POV then most dubs will move on - no sale here. When on the doorstep it's easy, you just say "I have to go now". With the carts it's less easy, they have to be pretty rude and pack up. Showing that on camera is pretty telling.
I hope the producer, "dontdoasyourtold" carries on with some videos. I see they are filmed in Bristol and I know at least one friend of ours who does the metropolitan witnessing work there and I would love to see what happens if she was engaged in conversation!
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Just ask simple questions and make street witnesses move along
by OnTheWayOut inyou don't have to know much to talk to jw's and show them they don't want to really discuss the matters.they consider a discussion on the matter they are pushing to be "confrontational.".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfw_txpmsj8.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lqtadagucq.
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konceptual99
Yes, the Witnesses are in a public place. Yes, the guy has a right to film. I would agree he was not confrontational in his manner of questioning. I do think however that many people would feel some apprehension about being filmed in this way. I am not surprised that the reaction is that there must be an agenda to why they are being filmed. I am therefore not surprised at all that the response was to move on. Witnesses are constantly told not to engage with those whose purpose is to criticise and very few are really capable of handing direct questioning and reasoning even when it is done in a calm manner. I would be interested know how much more time he could have spent talking with the Witnesses with no camera.
The persecution complex is strong in this one....
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Remember Those in Full-Time Service (1945 - 2015)
by jwleaks inthe saddest story ever told.
despite being childhood sweethearts, in the year 1941 they decided to postpone marriage and remain single and childless in this system so as to put the the theocracy first, albeit under the control of the watch tower society.. in the final pages of the children book john and eunice walk silently through the fields and stop by a great tree on the river bank where they had sometime before discussed their future plans.
the young lovers seat themselves down and look over the landscape.
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konceptual99
I am not sure that many single sisters have done so deliberately for the WT. There is such a low ratio of men to women that many have simply been unable to find a partner. Singleness for the sake of the WT is simply the net result of not enough blokes to go round.
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Watchtower Accused of Intellectual Dishonesty
by wannaexit inwatchtower never learns.. i applaud dr. singh for speaking out and his open letter to watchtower.
http://jwalumni.org/2015/01/17/rama-singh-awake/.
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konceptual99
Oh and scholar, have you made it clear to your friends on jwtalk in the thread on this subject that you are also discussing this subject here with apostates? -
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Watchtower Accused of Intellectual Dishonesty
by wannaexit inwatchtower never learns.. i applaud dr. singh for speaking out and his open letter to watchtower.
http://jwalumni.org/2015/01/17/rama-singh-awake/.
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konceptual99
Scholar JW...
The question is not if the quote is wrong but what impression the casual reader would be left with. Most readers with a bias towards creation would imply that the quote is saying that many scientists question evolution and are prepared to accept some form of intelligent design. Anyone reading the conext of the original material can see this is not the case.
The way the quote is presented and it's lack of context has been done so deliberately by the society to create the impression of support for creation. It is dishonest and the author has every right to question it's use.
The WTS and Witnesses in general are very quick to defend the organisation when they see the position of the society supposedly misrepresented and aspects of the religion taken out of context. They do not afford the same courtesy to those whom they quote in matters such as this.
i would also add that they are also happy to spin their own doctrine. Just look at the way the question of shunning is handled on jw.org for an example.
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Blondie's Comments on the 1-18-2015 WT Study (HOLY)
by blondie innovember 15, 2014 wt study issue.
january 18, 2015 to be studied.
opening comments.
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konceptual99
I note that they completely ignored the bit in the passage of scripture about Aaron's sons that said the rest of the people would mourn for them. The edict was just for Aaron, presumably because of his status as a priest. -
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Victim tells of sexual abuse ordeal at hands of stepfather
by WildeLover ina disgusting case in the ukman who was sexually abused by his stepfather when he was a boy has told how the ordeal had long- lasting effects.. nick french, 42, was tormented by gary moscrop, inset below, as a boy growing up in brighton, including sexual abuse and psychological cruelty.
last wednesday, his abuser was finally convicted of the historical offences after mr french stood up in front of a jury to recount the abuse, which happened in brighton and sussex between 1979 and 1985. bravely waiving his anonymity to speak to the argus, mr french, who now lives in cumbernauld, glasgow, said: it me a long time to work out that i had not done anything wrong myself and nothing i had done warranted that behaviour towards me.. i have had great assistance from the doctors and, since going back to the police a couple of years ago, it has been a huge weight off my shoulders putting everything down and saying this happened.. moscrop, 76, of hendon street, brighton, was jailed last thursday for ten years after being convicted of ten offences against mr french, including indecent assault, gross indecency with a child, buggery and child cruelty.. mr french first spoke up about a small portion of the abuse in 1987 when he was 15, leading to moscrop being cautioned.
he was finally prosecuted after mr french revealed the full scale of the abuse in 2012, when he could no longer repress it after having children of his own.
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konceptual99
Wow. I have not come across these names in my time in the area but I might do some digging to see if anyone I know has more detail on this. Anyone else in Sussex know/knew these people?