Posts by konceptual99

43

How Many Witnesses Would Really Take Blood?

by minimus in

jw
friends

up until the very end, my mother refused blood.

it didn't matter if it was a blurred line or not, the bible says "no blood"!

i wonder if she was in the minority, in her thinking.

konceptual99

K99, you are mistaken to proclaim your commentary as reality. Why are you willfully misunderstanding what I post ?

Maybe I don't understand what you are saying?

From what I can see you seem to be missing the point that pretty much everyone would agree with you that most Witnesses would not have a blood transfusion of a product deemed not acceptable by the GB.

I also think you are missing the point that most people would agree with you that most Witnesses would view it as a Bible command and look to the GB to advise them how the command should be interpreted.

Where you seem unable to grasp the point is that even taking the above into account, should the GB change their mind on the interpretation of the Bible command then the conscience and decision tree of an individual Witness will change to match the will of the GB. Everybody agrees with you that it's the GB that sets the agenda. You also seem unprepared to agree that the policy is inconsistent with even their own base position (i.e. the donation dichotomy).

No one here expects the GB to change their minds just because a bunch of malcontents write some posts on an internet forum. We are far more interested in providing input to those JWs lurking here, those who are thinking about inconsistencies in doctrine and helping them evaluate counter arguments to the nonsense they get from JW sources.

Have I misunderstood you?

43

How Many Witnesses Would Really Take Blood?

by minimus in

jw
friends

up until the very end, my mother refused blood.

it didn't matter if it was a blurred line or not, the bible says "no blood"!

i wonder if she was in the minority, in her thinking.

konceptual99

Fisherman...

Are you wilfully misunderstanding what people post?

The consensus amongst most critics of the WT blood policy is to a greater or less extent as follows:

1 - most Witnesses will not willingly accept any procedure/product that is declared unacceptable by the WTS (i.e. whole blood + the four arbitrary components)

2 - most Witnesses will accept any procedure/product that is declared a conscience matter by the WTS (e.g. cell salvage, fractions etc.)

3 - most Witnesses will change their view on what is acceptable and not acceptable based on what the WTS say is such

4 - the WTS has consistently maintained that it is unacceptable to donate blood as shows disrespect to God's law

5 - the WTS has, over the years, had to respond to medical technology advances and has gone away from a fundamental interpretation and application of scripture to one of woolly and contradictory policy (e.g. donation is unacceptable, using processed blood fractions = acceptable)

6 - the WTS has deflected criticism that people don't have a choice by making acceptance of a blood transfusion a "DA by actions" matter. They speak from both sides of their mouth and claim Witnesses have no sanctions yet we all know DA is the same result as being DFed.

7 - the policy is so complex it requires a small army of enforcers to keep people in line and doctors fed with chaff that makes them think Witnesses have a choice

8 - a Witness can make a choice that is not acceptable one day without knowing if the policy will change the next day or vice-versa.

9 - many speculate that the WTS would like to drop the policy but since it is one of the core doctrines that has defined Witnesses as different for years and required people to make life and death choices it shies away from dropping it, preferring to dilute it to the complex mess it is now.

So in answer to the OP...

How many Witnesses would accept a treatment the WTS defines as unacceptable. A small minority.

How many Witnesses would accept a treatment the WTS defined as unacceptable yesterday but changes to being acceptable today. An almost total majority.

Forget the Bible. This is the reality.

43

How Many Witnesses Would Really Take Blood?

by minimus in

jw
friends

up until the very end, my mother refused blood.

it didn't matter if it was a blurred line or not, the bible says "no blood"!

i wonder if she was in the minority, in her thinking.

konceptual99

OTWO - I recall there is some documentation somewhere that shows the HLC in at least one area (Canada?) will give tacit approval to parents to basically send strong hints to the medical team to make a child a ward of court. It's a simple way out.

Even if it's not an unwritten instruction it absolutely happens.

42

U.K. NHS Attitude to Blood Transfusion and its Safety

by BluesBrother in

while visiting someone at the local hospital i saw this leaflet " will i need a blood transfusion ?

- patient information" .

now i was raised in the belief that doctors are transfusion-happy and just give you one willy nilly if they operate , further that a trans.

konceptual99

and they don't accept blood transfusions.

They don't accept transfusions of whole blood or of four other components of blood. They accept a whole host of other components and products derived from blood.

They do not allow the donation of blood even for storage and use by the same person. They say the blood removed should be destroyed. Yet they willingly accept many products derived from donate blood.

If everyone in the world was a Witness there would be no donated blood. The blood policy is a mish mash of compromise and obfuscation. The blood policy stands in good company with lots of other WTS doctrine in it's level of illogicality but surpasses all others for it's hypocrisy, danger and selfishness.

42

U.K. NHS Attitude to Blood Transfusion and its Safety

by BluesBrother in

while visiting someone at the local hospital i saw this leaflet " will i need a blood transfusion ?

- patient information" .

now i was raised in the belief that doctors are transfusion-happy and just give you one willy nilly if they operate , further that a trans.

konceptual99

It's idiotic because it makes no logical sense. They have put tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands of lives at risk, forced people to make life or death choices - all on the basis of a doctrine they clearly don't believe in enough to stick to a fundamental interpretation. Their woolly, arbitrary policy, made up of an evolution of compromises, requires a team of enforcers to keep the R&F in line and medical practitioners hoodwinked into thinking it's a reasonable religious position.

The fact that people did catch illnesses through transfusion in the past makes no difference to the validity of the policy. They don't maintain the policy for sensible doctrinal reasons. They don't even maintain it in order to improve medical technology. They do it because they have put some much into it - not least the lives of thousands - they cannot back down without seriously undermining their own authority and risking opening the floodgates of litigation.

18

What exactly is the JANUARY 2018 WT trying to tell J.W.'s?

by The Fall Guy in

the needle has been stuck on the record for over 130 years - thanks to mr. russell and his successive cohorts:.

page 11, paragraph 19 - “as this system nears its end,....”.

page 13, paragraph 5 - “do my actions show that i truly believe that these are the last days and that the end of satan’s rule is near?”.

konceptual99

WT 1967 - 50 years ago...

We today live in critical times. These are the “last days” of this wicked system of things. Already over fifty-two years have passed since the Kingdom’s establishment in heaven in 1914. The end of six thousand years of human history is very close. The physical facts that mark our time as the “conclusion of the system of things” are unmistakable. (Matt. 24:3) It is a time of great urgency. Do we believe it? The fact is that some who profess to believe it may lose out on the blessings of God’s new system of things because they are not keeping their minds and hearts fixed on the hope ahead.

WT 1973 - 44 years ago...

If you are one of Jehovah’s dedicated witnesses, you believe that the generation of people now living is in its “last days.” You believe that it is urgent to help others to become approved servants of Jehovah God and put themselves in line for surviving the coming world “tribulation” that will bring the “last days” to their end. You also believe that it is God’s will that “all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.” (1 Tim. 2:4) Does what you believe about the “last days,” the coming “tribulation,” and God’s purpose for man stir you to activity? Does your whole way of life demonstrate that you really believe that these are the “last days” and that people’s lives are in danger?

WT - 1986 - 31 years ago

Fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that we are living in the last days of this wicked world, or system of things. This generation has seen the fulfillment of Jesus’ great prophecy regarding his presence and the conclusion of this system of things: wars, earthquakes, famines, pestilences, increase of lawlessness, and the preaching of the good news of God’s Kingdom. (Matthew 24:1-35; Luke 21:10, 11) That pinpoints our time as the last days of this wicked world.

KM - 5/84 - 33 years ago

These are the last days; theocratic expansion is taking place everywhere, and potential for further increase is no doubt indicated in your congregation’s recent Memorial attendance.—Isa. 60:22; Mark 13:10.

Need I say more....

11

TATTOO

by The Fall Guy in

i have a tattoo of an envelope about half-way up the front of my leg.

it means i've got a knee mail to look at each day.

:).

konceptual99

knee mail... e-mail.... tiki...

*groan*

33

So there are only 12 magazines left!

by stuckinarut2 in

ok, so hot on the heels of the announcement at the agm, we have been told that there are probably only 12 magazines left!.

yes, there will be only 3 wt each year, and 3 awakes.... and that they will do this for two years, then reprint those issues.... so yes, the "abundance of spiritual food" is limited to 12 more magazines..... surely, this is proof of the end coming so soon!?!

😉.

konceptual99

The letter read at the meeting last night, as published on here last Saturday, does not mention the 2 years only for the Public magazines nor the combining of the Study WT with the Simplified WT.
Those little gems are still to be released to the congregations!

interesting. That's why my wife didn't mention them. I didn't mention it myself so as not to invoke a difficult conversation but I did wonder if perhaps it had not been announced.

33

So there are only 12 magazines left!

by stuckinarut2 in

ok, so hot on the heels of the announcement at the agm, we have been told that there are probably only 12 magazines left!.

yes, there will be only 3 wt each year, and 3 awakes.... and that they will do this for two years, then reprint those issues.... so yes, the "abundance of spiritual food" is limited to 12 more magazines..... surely, this is proof of the end coming so soon!?!

😉.

konceptual99

My wife came back from the mtg last night and told me some letters had been read and relayed what I already knew from here.

She said the emphasis would be more on using the videos and conversing with people. I was thinking good luck with that one. The ministry is going to be even less effective IMHO.

42

U.K. NHS Attitude to Blood Transfusion and its Safety

by BluesBrother in

while visiting someone at the local hospital i saw this leaflet " will i need a blood transfusion ?

- patient information" .

now i was raised in the belief that doctors are transfusion-happy and just give you one willy nilly if they operate , further that a trans.

konceptual99

At least at that time WT health concerns about BT did not prove to be idiotic

According to you, it's all about the Bible command and health is irrelevant. Which is also what the WTS has stated in print. Not only that, the blood supply in most Western lands has been safe for decades. The figures back that up. Of course it can't be 100% safe but the majority of issues with blood transfusions are due to mistakes in the use rather than a problem with the blood itself. I had a conversation with a current HLC member who said EXACTLY this in the past 6 weeks.

The WTS would not look idiotic for any reasons associated with health. They would look stupid for reversing a core piece of doctrine. They could release Witnesses from the illogical nonsense but refuse to do so and just introduce more twists in logic to try and make the illogical appear logical.

Your referring to lawsuits and all seem to be implying that wt has different motives for their direction on blood at this time

Yes. Their refusal to drop it is not out of love for their interpretation of some Bible verses. That's probably 3rd or 4th on list.

again challenging wt leadership.

You confuse me with someone that cares