I am watching The Path with my wife at the moment and am not really surprised that she can't see the similarities in certain behaviours and tactics. When I was mentally in then I never thought I was in a cult.
konceptual99
JoinedPosts by konceptual99
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19
Rank & File Reaction to Leah Remini Series
by freemindfade inwife and i have watched the whole series and just finished episode 7 last night.
personally, i am seeing a great deal more subtle and day to day similarities to watchtower than the obvious ones i already knew existed, ie shunning.
very eye opening and heartbreaking, even more so than going clear in my mind.
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65
Short stay
by midnight inafter much research and prayer i am returning to being a jehovah's witness i can find nothing that eliminates them from being god's directed people , in the end they will reach the end of there journey despite mistakes and errors just like the israelites entered the promised land , thanks for your input and all the best on your personal journey ☺.
midnight..
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konceptual99
Hi midnight,
From one of your threads where you talk about atheism and where you are with your wife etc. it seemed to me that you had made up your mind that you no longer believed JWs have the Truth.
Your OP on this thread suggests to me that you are not willing to livewhat is, to all intents and purposes, a double life of disbelief coupled with some token adherence to the life of a Witness. Instead you are just trying to convince yourself that you still kind of believe and going through the motions and not caring about it is better than having to keep facing the question of exactly what you are going to do about your disbelief as time moves on.
Believe you me I can understand this - it's crossed my mind enough. Some days, just playing the game and participating would be easier than the alternatives. It's red pill/blue bill and right now you are choosing the blue pill.
It's a choice and you are free to make it. I just hope you do reconsider one day and when you do really want to take the red pill then we shall all be here to help and support.
All the best and don't be away too long :-)
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41
Numbers don't lie... and these numbers are beautiful!!
by ILoveTTATT2 inthe numbers don't lie... definitely slowing down!!.
in the 40´s the average growth per year was 20%in the 50´s it was about 10%they had four decades of solid 5% per yearnow the average for the past 16 years has been 2%.
maybe in the future it will be 1% or 0 or even negative????.
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konceptual99
I get Richard's point in as much as simply comparing two years in themselves does not prove anything. For example, saying that (hypothetically) in 1965 there were 1m witnesses and they grew by 100k in a year and in 2015 there were 8m witnesses and they grew by 265k does not prove very much - the second number is a smaller percentage increase but there is no real context to provide any indication of what the difference really means.
When you look at it over a period of years, however, the changing ratio starts to tell a story. If you add to that statistic further data, for example the number of hours spent to get a ratio for hours of preaching to gain 1 conversion, or a geographical breakdown that shows the increase is virtually static in developed nations then you can start to formulate some conclusions.
Cherry picking a couple of years for comparison does prove very little and I would agree with Richard that one it's own even a reducing ratio of year on year increase does not really prove anything of significance. Regardless, when you look at numerous metrics taken together then I agree with all the posters that say the percentages give you the real story. The evidence presented by even just a few related lines of analysis is damning and is 100% the reason why the WTS concentrates on the headline numbers, the long figures that present an impressive picture until you look at the trends.
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41
Numbers don't lie... and these numbers are beautiful!!
by ILoveTTATT2 inthe numbers don't lie... definitely slowing down!!.
in the 40´s the average growth per year was 20%in the 50´s it was about 10%they had four decades of solid 5% per yearnow the average for the past 16 years has been 2%.
maybe in the future it will be 1% or 0 or even negative????.
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konceptual99
You are correct Richard if you look at the numerical increase. Sure, $1 on $15 is more of a percentage than $1 on $16. But the thing is that if you were negotiating your yearly raise you would not negotiate a numerical increase, you would negotiate a percentage increase.
If you negotiated a 7% increase each year then the actual amount received would increase. If received less then you would start to get a bit miffed as your percentage raise is decreasing.
The same with the WTS. They love to highlight the raw numbers. 8 million publishers, 19 billion hours, 20 million at the memorial, hundreds baptised each day, thousands of congregations.
The fact is however that percentages are important as they tell the real story on things like the efficiency of the preaching work, the conversion rates and so on. The percentages indicate trends that point to the health of the organisation and it's long term viability.
If you are earning $30,000 pa and get a $10,000 pay rise, that's great. It's far less impressive if you are earning $300,000.
The WTS is not an organisation of 1 million bringing in tens of thousands a year. They are an organisation of 8 million, spending almost 20 billion hours preaching yet in the 2014 service year had net increase of 18,000 people. The 2015 service year brought figures like an increase in average publishers of 26 people in the UK.
The WTS hides the reality with the big numbers but the percentages expose the malaise that is infecting the organisation and shows no sign of disappearing.
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7
Hypothetical Memo to the G.B. From the Writing Committee
by The Searcher indear glorious ones, we feel certain that our statement in the february 2017 watchtower - "the governing body is neither inspired nor infallible.
therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction" - will assuredly save each one of you from taking a bullet this year when the australian royal commission and the u.k. charities commission's findings are made public and inflict punitive measures on the organization for its historical failure to weed out pedophile and to protect children.
if the minions are challenged, they now have a ready-made conversation stopper and can show it to dissenters on their electronic devices.
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konceptual99
Thanks Freddo. On your lead I thought I'd remind myself what the simplified edition of the 11/15 2013 WT said. It makes it very nice and simple...
At that time, the direction that you receive from Jehovah’s organization may seem strange or unusual. But all of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether we agree with them or not, because obeying these instructions will save our lives.
To be fair the context of the paragraph is about "when the Assyrian attacks" and future persecution prior to the big A but the point remains - we are meant to obey without question and forgive any errors in instructions that may not be quite as life-saving as we might initially believe since the GB are perfectly entitled to make mistakes.
With life-saving directions.
That's if we are still alive to forgive the GB for cocking it up.
And if we are not worried that God is so impotent so as not be able to provide his own fecking representatives with the right instructions at the most critical point in time.
What a bunch of fecking morons.
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7
Hypothetical Memo to the G.B. From the Writing Committee
by The Searcher indear glorious ones, we feel certain that our statement in the february 2017 watchtower - "the governing body is neither inspired nor infallible.
therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction" - will assuredly save each one of you from taking a bullet this year when the australian royal commission and the u.k. charities commission's findings are made public and inflict punitive measures on the organization for its historical failure to weed out pedophile and to protect children.
if the minions are challenged, they now have a ready-made conversation stopper and can show it to dissenters on their electronic devices.
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konceptual99
Of course the reality is that both the GB and the R&F will continue with the status quo and assume that everything the GB says is correct until they say it isn't. What the Feb 17 statement makes clear is that when a mistake is made, when a 180 degree turn is made then they don't claim infallibility or direct divine inspiration. They are simply doing their best to provide the right food at the proper time.
What the GB hopes is that this is enough for everyone, placating them with the assurance that even though they were wrong, they were wrong for the right reasons and with the best of intentions.
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7
Hypothetical Memo to the G.B. From the Writing Committee
by The Searcher indear glorious ones, we feel certain that our statement in the february 2017 watchtower - "the governing body is neither inspired nor infallible.
therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction" - will assuredly save each one of you from taking a bullet this year when the australian royal commission and the u.k. charities commission's findings are made public and inflict punitive measures on the organization for its historical failure to weed out pedophile and to protect children.
if the minions are challenged, they now have a ready-made conversation stopper and can show it to dissenters on their electronic devices.
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konceptual99
Yet the bizarre thing is that they have also instructed the R&F to be ready obey any directions "whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not" and may not "appear practical from a human standpoint". (WT 2013 11/15). This direction is described as "life-saving".
The same paragraph implores witnesses to put their trust in the GB above anything else.
Now they are making it clear their decisions could be wrong, could be mistaken. Can they really expect blind obedience in every case? I wonder how the R&F will square this circle?
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Sorry - I forgot. The conclusion that the two positions are logically mutually exclusive will simply be ignored.
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3
YB17 Promotes Child Baptism
by konceptual99 inaside from the statistics inthe new yb there are also a couple of cases of it promoting child baptism.. in the section about the young remembering their grand creator in georiga you will find this.... https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/2017-yearbook/georgia/youth-remember-grand-creator/.
in support of parental training, elders try to involve young ones in congregation activities as early as possible.
nestori, who was baptized when he was 11 years old, states: “the elders gave me various small assignments from a very early age.
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konceptual99
Aside from the statistics inthe new YB there are also a couple of cases of it promoting child baptism.
In the section about the young remembering their grand creator in Georiga you will find this...
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/2017-yearbook/georgia/youth-remember-grand-creator/
In support of parental training, elders try to involve young ones in congregation activities as early as possible. Nestori, who was baptized when he was 11 years old, states: “The elders gave me various small assignments from a very early age. This has helped me feel that I’m really part of the congregation.”
In the section in JW Broadcasting you will find this...
Kodi, from England, says: “Thanks for all the time and effort you put into making jw.org, JW Broadcasting, and the Caleb and Sophia videos. Thank you for making the Bible easier to understand. I was baptized when I was eight. When I’m a bit older, I’m going to volunteer to help build Kingdom Halls! And I would like to work at Bethel. I’m nine now, so I’ve not got long to go.”
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41
Numbers don't lie... and these numbers are beautiful!!
by ILoveTTATT2 inthe numbers don't lie... definitely slowing down!!.
in the 40´s the average growth per year was 20%in the 50´s it was about 10%they had four decades of solid 5% per yearnow the average for the past 16 years has been 2%.
maybe in the future it will be 1% or 0 or even negative????.
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konceptual99
This figure could also explain the theocratic "CPR" being performed over the last couple of years in the form of shunning talks/videos and apostate warnings and general demonizing of anyone not loyal.
Which is seemingly now turning to pure desperation cf. the impending regional convention series "Don't Give Up"...
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41
Numbers don't lie... and these numbers are beautiful!!
by ILoveTTATT2 inthe numbers don't lie... definitely slowing down!!.
in the 40´s the average growth per year was 20%in the 50´s it was about 10%they had four decades of solid 5% per yearnow the average for the past 16 years has been 2%.
maybe in the future it will be 1% or 0 or even negative????.
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konceptual99
And then you could ask, in what way has it cooled off? Or are we now applying "the greater number" to the number of Jehovah's witnesses, which is stagnant and a 1000+/1 minority in the world?
Most of the references to this verse in the past 30 years highlight the "increase in lawlessness". Where they talk about love cooling off it's related, as the context suggests, to the general population becoming more selfish and decreasing in their love for God.
The only place it gets close to relating it to Witnesses is in the Insight book under "Love":
One’s Love Can Cool Off. Jesus Christ, in telling his disciples of the things ahead, indicated that the love (a·gaʹpe) of many who professed belief in God would cool off. (Mt 24:3, 12) The apostle Paul said that, as a feature of the critical times to come, men would become “lovers of money.” (2Ti 3:1, 2) It is evident, therefore, that a person can lose sight of right principles and that the proper love he once had can fade away. This emphasizes the importance of constant exercise and development of love by meditation on God’s Word and by molding one’s life according to His principles.—Eph 4:15, 22-24.
The neat trick is that simply through osmosis this idea that this scripture refers to Witnesses gets spread. The phrase the "love of the greater number will cool off" is repeated in conversation and without context yet the context gives a reason for this love cooling off - the increase in lawlessness. When taken in this context it's hard to see a direct prophetic link to the malaise of the Witnesses yet the rank and file see it with no significant and direct discussion by the WTS - in fact the opposite is true.
It's cognitive dissonance. Plain and simple.