Posts by konceptual99

17

Frank Otuo is he a con man or are we to support him.

by joe134cd in

a couple of things first: .

-nothing would bring me more pleasure than seeing wt getting stung in a costly law suite.. - please forgive me but i have only briefly read the court documents.

so this brings me to my question.

konceptual99

To be fair WMF, from my reading of the transcripts Mr. Otuo was accused of fraud by the Witness and this accusation was put in writing to the JC committee. Mr. Otuo never was allowed to see this and now the congregation are saying it was destroyed and have testified to that fact. This is an example of the typical procedural nonsense surrounding JW judicial committees.

The other side of that coin is that I don't recall seeing anything that formally documents the situation between Mr. Otuo and the Witness. AFAIK there is nothing that says there was never a business relationship. Neither is there anything like some kind of contract or agreement. As observers we have no way of knowing what was agreed.

It's fair to say that Mr. Otuo has not faced criminal charges. It's also fair to say the accusation of fraud seem very loose and typical of how the WT likes to create their own definitions. Regardless, I've not seen anything concrete that takes this out the realm of a business agreement gone wrong. I would be more than happy to support Mr. Otuo if there was some proof that the Witness stood to lose money, Mr Otuo had acted in good faith 100% of the time and that to take the side of the Witness would be a gross injustice.

I think there is merit in the argument that the DFing does imply Mr. Otuo was in the wrong and does lead to chatter and gossip. For it to be slander the accusation has to be false and I'm not sure that we are seeing enough of both sides of the story to make that judgement call right now.

I really hope Mr. Otuo is free of any accusation and, if so, can win this battle. All I am asking for is some more clarity on how I can be sure this is the case.

17

Frank Otuo is he a con man or are we to support him.

by joe134cd in

a couple of things first: .

-nothing would bring me more pleasure than seeing wt getting stung in a costly law suite.. - please forgive me but i have only briefly read the court documents.

so this brings me to my question.

konceptual99

Yes of course I am aware of the court system and how it operates. I am also more than aware of how the elders and the organisation operate kangaroo courts.

I am not calling Mr. Otuo a liar however why would you expect me to support a guy and even spend time to attend court when the circumstances are not clear.

Help me out here and post something that succinctly refreshes the story and presents the facts.

26

WTBTS vs. Islam

by kairos in

jw
friends

the articles and meeting parts have been missing something all along, as far as i can see.. jws are taught to demonize all 'worldly' ( not jws) organizations, individuals and religions as having no value only to be destroyed by god at 'harm-you-gettin'-( armageddon ).. why do they not mention islam?no scathing denouncements?.

the only publication i really remember, was the "mankind's search for god" book that touched on the beliefs and practices of muslims.. why do you think this is the case?.

konceptual99

Which all comes to the same conclusions as far as I can see:

1 - there are only a small minority of Muslims prepared to actually take a stand against core dogma about things like violence and homosexuality that are exploited by extremists and

2 - when push come to shove the majority choose to give at least some tacit support to religiously bound ideas on morality and even violent enforcement of Islam rather than be considered as apostates

"Moderate" Christianity exists only because secularism has become the norm and people don't really care if others want to mix that up with a bit of ritualism on a Sunday. Day to day it makes no difference.

"Moderate" Jehovah's Witnesses don't really exist because at the end of the day there is only one side of the fence to be on.

For what I observe, the same applies to "moderate" Islam. The truly secular Muslim who is only doing it for a bit of traditional and meaningless cultural ritualism is seemingly a very rare beast.

22

UK: Would anyone like to attend Frank Otuo's next hearing against the Watchtower? Or send him your support?

by defender of truth in

www.standard.co.uk/news/jehovahs-witness-sues-for-150000-after-church-snubbed-him-over-fraud-claims-9750062.htmlfrank otuo is suing the watchtower for disfellowshipping him and causing the loss of his family and his friends, after being disfellowshipped based on a false accusation of fraud.on friday may 13th 2016, a hearing will take place to decide whether the watchtower's defence will be thrown out.otuo is confident that it will be.

;)would anyone like to be there on the day, to see what happens and maybe even report back and tell us what you saw?.

otuo would like it if some people could be there to cheer him on, as it were.

konceptual99

Whilst this seems like a JW DF setup what evidence is there that the whole thing is a malicious fabrication? Did Mr. Utuo take money that was not his or not? Lack of criminal prosecution or even investigation is not enough as there are many things that happen between two parties that are never handled in a criminal way but when examined demonstrate actions that are hard to support.

17

Frank Otuo is he a con man or are we to support him.

by joe134cd in

a couple of things first: .

-nothing would bring me more pleasure than seeing wt getting stung in a costly law suite.. - please forgive me but i have only briefly read the court documents.

so this brings me to my question.

konceptual99

I think we yet have to see the evidence that Mr. Otuo has been falsely accused and genuinely wronged beyond the tiresome he said/she tennis match and the usual procedural nonsense that surrounds many JW DF cases.

33

Where and What. . . IS THE EVIDENCE for "Mental ILLNESS"? ? ?

by Terry in

jw
friends

i have no interest whatsoever in stirring up controversy.. in fact, i find clashes of opinion to be debilitatingly negative.. so, i'd simply like to request that we narrow this discussion to evidence.. please watch this video which is tantalizingly titled :.

"there's no such thing as mental illness".. consider this data and listen to the presentation of cause vs. effects and give me your analysis and any evidence for conclusions you may draw.

we all have anecdotal tendencies, but i should remind you, anecdotal testimony isn't evidence, only opinion.________________________________________.

konceptual99

The number of people diagnosed with mental illness has gone up because we've stopped calling people witches or demon possessed and pushed on from simply locking people up in institutions en-mass.

True, some of the treatments are crude. I've seen first hand the impact of electric shock treatment. Drugs often manage rather than cure but that is true of other treatments such as radio and chemotherapy for cancer.

Challenging the status quo is always needed but throwing pseudo-science around as if it's some magic cure is at best a waste of time, at worst positively dangerous.

24

The Jehovah’s Witness bagged themselves a Big One when they got Professor Raj Kalaria, to speak about his belief

by Watchtower-Free in

uk scientist helps christian cult to promote creationism.

the jehovah’s witness bagged themselves a big one when they got professor raj kalaria, above, to speak about his belief in creationism in a new video posted online by the cult.. keralia is currently a deputy director of the newcastle centre for brain ageing and vitality, newcastle, and a professor of neuropathology at newcastle university, uk.. when ex-jehovah’s witness lloyd evans, who runs jwsurvey, discovered that an april 2016 jw broadcasting episode featured keralia, he decided to:.

reach out to newcastle university to find out whether it endorses the academic’s stance on evolution, and found myself in a rather frustrating email exchange with helen rae, the media relations manager at the university’s faculty of medical sciences .. after much to-ing and fro-ing, an official statement was finally forthcoming ….

konceptual99

What is incredibly frustrating about content like this is that there is zero detail on exactly what it was that changed the minds of these people. What aspect of their research demonstrated to them that the majority view was flawed and the creation narrative had merit? Have they found something that debunked the debunked or have they simply fallen into the same traps countless others have?

I respect the view that perhaps some things could be perceived to be too complex to evolve and that one may not accept the hypothesis or theories associated with that specific subject. The question you have to ask, however, is how that individual subject fits in with the rest of the narrative. If that one small aspect of science causes you to consider an intelligent designer then what are the implications? How does that fit with the rest of science? How does it fit with what one observes about humanity? Are you going to believe in some fairly nebulous concept of an intelligent designer with little influence now or are you going to conclude that there is a God who genuinely cares about people and is about to prove it by killing billions of them so a limited few can cuddle lions?

I really want to know what the slam dunk proof that evolution is completely wrong is. I really want to know why it's not plastered all over the JW.ORG website as a massive middle finger to entire scientific community. It might be the one thing that reverses my complete loss of faith and belief.

18

Todays WT about young people not following the bad example of their parents

by konceptual99 in

so the wt today had some paragraphs that told young people they could make their own stand for da troof.... 2 since we live in a fierce, loveless world, it is no surprise that many children have to grow up without the benefit of loving, protective parents.

(2 tim.

3:1-5) many christians today come from painful family backgrounds, but they have built close friendships with jehovah.

konceptual99

Thanks George. I'd not thought to check there. I did think there was something more recent but must be mistaken

18

Todays WT about young people not following the bad example of their parents

by konceptual99 in

so the wt today had some paragraphs that told young people they could make their own stand for da troof.... 2 since we live in a fierce, loveless world, it is no surprise that many children have to grow up without the benefit of loving, protective parents.

(2 tim.

3:1-5) many christians today come from painful family backgrounds, but they have built close friendships with jehovah.

konceptual99

Good comments.

I was wanting to try and contrast specifically with what the org has said about the death of children at the big A but can't find the reference. I am sure is there that says something about Jehovah being able to see into their hearts and knowing they will be evil when they grow up.

20

Any here who didn't rebel as a teenager and were a goody two shoes instead?

by purrpurr in

jw
friends

when i was a teenager in the borg i was a dyed in the wool, goody two shoes, squeaky clean,"spiritual " sister.

alot of my peers around me were rebelling and going off the rails but not me.

i was constantly praised for this and even felt a little smug about it ha!.

konceptual99

I was pretty good. I got drunk, listened to whatever music I wanted and mucked about but never smoked or had sex. I never pioneered but was pretty serious about da troof. My dad was an elder and I did think about the impact actions I may do would have on him.

Even though I think I took it all way too seriously and could have got away with a lot more, I am also grateful that I didn't get into real trouble, perhaps with getting too serious too quickly with the wrong girl, getting into drugs or ending up doing something that hurt someone else or was criminal.

I did end up getting married to a real gem of a lady who remains my best friend and to a certain extent have da troof to thank for that.

Do I wish I saw TTATT much earlier? Of course. But I am happy that being good early on has not meant a lot of pain and getting hitched to the wrong person. Naturally it's impossible to say what could have been but aside from the pain of trying to extricate myself from the WT I can't complain.