Posts by konceptual99

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

konceptual99

There is no one in this world more desirous of seeing WT's accountability in this child abuse mess come to light through the courts and media than me as I do have a dog in this fight! But I've learned a long time ago that before I rush to judgment, I need all the facts, otherwise my credibility is at stake. The following is some of what I wrote on my website about this accusation that WT ordered elders in the UK to destroy evidence:

While the BBC’s report is correct that all Kingdom Halls were given direction about the destruction of certain internal documents, there is some debate and many unanswered questions as to whether this was a “change of policy” specifically intended by the Watchtower Society to prevent the Commission’s access. Watchtower branch officers in the UK claim that this was not the case – and there is some evidence to support their claim. On the other hand, the Watchtower’s critics claim that the instructions regarding document destruction were specifically designed to complicate and frustrate the Commission’s investigation.

I for one really appreciate your considered and journalistic approach to this Barbara. I am very glad to see someone with your track record and credibility highlighting the issues without drama, supposition and biased spin.

As I suspect you probably know the general instruction to audit personal notes and the congregation files is a yearly instruction. Any member here who as served as an elder should be able to verify this. What I don't know is if the most recent letter was different in tone or nature of it's instructions. Perhaps there are copies of previous years' communications which could be compared?

I am sure the WTS is sure in their mind the instructions do not contravene the Inquiry's letter. They will feel that notes written by elders during JCs are simply jottings and not valuable or relevant. They will conclude that the official record kept is sufficient. The instructions for matters related to child abuse are separate and they would claim this clearly shows there is no intent to deliberately rid the files of relevant information.

This is exactly the tack they followed with the ARC. Whilst their legalistic and semantic "theocratic warfare" might be at least arguable in a legal context, what they keep missing is that this approach does not show any willingness to cooperate, any desire to admit failings and move forward. It's not just the law that the WTS needs to work with, it's the spirit of the law and their lack of progression with this is what is constantly coming back to bite their credibility firmly on the backside.

13

New letter about new tasks for the shipping department at Bethel Selters

by Edison Trent in

many times in the past i benefited from information posted in this forum.

today i want to let you participate with a new letter that elders in germany received this week.

it's only available in german, french and italian.

konceptual99

Interesting. So they are building a new branch for what? Presumably the British branch will continue to ship literature for the UK and Ireland. I wonder what will happen with Malta as that was always really close with the British Bethel?

33

Question about visiting bethel ... akward moment at the end

by nevaagain in

jw
friends

since there a couple of ex-bethelites here, and a lot of people from the greater ny area who have probably visited the bethel in brooklyn and patterson many times, maybe they can shed some light into this curious question we (my wife and me) have for awhile.. so a couple of years ago, we happaned to be in the states and also went to visit the bethels in brooklyn and patterson.

we had the full package, what i mean is, not only we took the tour, but we also had someone to invite us for lunch.

while we wanted to enjoy our stay there, there was always a weird feeling being there.

konceptual99

Just say thanks for the tour and tell them you've put a suitable donation into the WWW.

My suitable donation? Jack.

56

GB bites off more than they can chew!

by biblexaminer in

the gb bit off more than they can chew.

they promised that the nwt revised would be available in so many languages by now, and they have failed miserably.. english stands alone.

as a result, they are in damage control mode.

konceptual99

This is very interesting. I had no idea that the RNWT was so limited and the quotes re the Albanian Bible are a great catch! You would have expected that the major languages of the world would be well represented 3 years down the line. No French, Spanish or German let alone anything in Mandarin or Arabic.

Most of the languages are fairly limited in number of speakers. I suspect they were working on translations of the previous version and switched to the RNWT.

You have to bear in mind as well that the organisation has spent a lot of money downsizing bethels to make Regional Translation Offices. What are these people doing?

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

konceptual99

The British specific policy information is contained in letters from 1999/2000. I know I posted a few, and I'm sure konceptual99 (?) posted more too. It gives what the elders actually do retain after notes have been destroyed. It's not a lot. Sure someone can link. My internet keeps dying (BT sucks) or I would repost.

I've not posted any letters as I've not been an elder or had access to the file. I was almost certain each congregation had to register but I can't find anything to confirm this as this was 15 plus years ago. There have definitely been letters and instructions sent regarding the DPA and the general storage of records. There are also differences between what is kept about general judicial matters and those specifically about child abuse.

There is a yearly "audit" of notes and records to purge anything which is not on the list of acceptable records. I've known about this for years and discussed it several times with friends and family who are elders and served as the congregation secretary.

The fundamental reason was the DPA, especially the fact that elders could not be trusted to take impartial notes about a judicial matter and would put stupid things into writing. I would not be surprised if there were wider reasons such as plausible deniability should documents be requested by authorities.

Of course there is the implication that this approach is a systematic plan by the WTS in Britain to remove information on child abuse cases but the letter makes it clear that the audit does not apply child abuse information.

Having said that. I think the BBC report touches on a number of concerns. For example:

- what happens if a matter never actually gets categorised as child abuse?

- is the information held about child abuse cases and abusers sufficient?

- what prevents an incorrect interpretation of the instructions from allowing required data to be destroyed?

- why has there been no communication to the elders about the letter from the ICO?

- why is there a culture of poor cooperation with the authorities when they do investigate?

- why are judicial processes not suspended until the authorities are allowed to investigate potentially criminal matters?

- why does every process reflect a distrust of authorities, fear of litigation, lack of transparency and general impression the organisation has to be dragged kicking and screaming towards any kind of best practice regarding dealings with it's members and the wider community?

76

BBC Radio 4. 14th February 2016. ''Sunday'' program with article on Witnesses and child abuse.

by ThomasCovenant in

the sunday programme investigates allegations that the jehovah's witness ordered the destruction of documents that could be used during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse.

was this in contravention of section 21 of the inquiries act 2005 which is punishable by imprisonment?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0709v34.

konceptual99

Excellent. It's hits the question about why there has been no specific direction to elders on the instruction from the Inquiry to keep all documents right on the nose.

It is also very interesting to note that there is a criminal offence related to none compliance with an Inquiry instruction. Presumably this could fall directly to elders given the structure of congregations as individual charities. Any idea how this could be confirmed?

475

What is the alternative to JW?

by Formerbrother in

i mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.

im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?

the the bible is word?

konceptual99

Which other churches come close to this vast global preaching work that Jesus spoke about? The church of Jesus later day saints is hardly known about at all, they have never called at my door, or many other people around the world. That can not be said of Jws.

One of the biggest fallacies about the preaching work raises it's ugly head once again.

Go and ask the population of China, the Indian sub-continent, North Africa and the Middle East how many Witnesses have knocked on their door or even seen a cart in the market place?

14

Evolution is a Fact - Index for Numbers 1 - 20

by cofty in

#1 protein functional redundancycomparing the sequences of amino acids in ubiquitous proteins confirms the relationship between all living things.. #2 dna functional redundancycomparison of the dna that codes for the amino acids of ubiquitous proteins predicts the tree of life with an astonishing degree of accuracy.. #3 ervsendogenous retroviruses that infected our ancestors are found in the same place of the genome of our closest primate cousins.

#4 smelly geneshundreds of broken genes that used to code for olfactory receptors in our ancestors are still found in our genome.. #5 vitamin cwhy humans can no longer make their own vitamin c and what that tells us about our species' history.. #6 human chromosome 2our second biggest chromosome is made up of two of our ancestors' genes stuck end-to-end.. #7 human egg yolk genehumans and our primate cousins have the genes for making vitellogenin and they are all broken in the same way.

#8 jumping genesbits of parasitic code called alu elements prove our common ancestry with primates.