Posts by konceptual99

64

What triggered your doubts / awakening?

by Tornintwo in

i am sort of new here, used a different username for a while but things got 'difficult' at home so i've since been lurking.... what i would be really interested to know, if you don't mind sharing, is what it was that triggered your doubts and initial research which led to awakening, was it a bad experience, injustice, changed doctrine?

for me, it was seeing mistreatment of young ones in the congregation, they're under so much pressure and as soon as they go even slightly astray they are shunned, either informally (as bad associations which pushes them further into the 'world') or formally - with elders dying to throw the book at them so they even lose their family.... ...then reading about child abuse issues in the press.... ...which led me to silentlambs.

...then jw facts, this forum and coc, wham!

konceptual99

Oh yeah - I'd forgotten that I sussed the blood issue was a crock of bull during my slumbering awake phase. Mainly because I did not understand how you could get bolloxed for donating blood yet were perfectly OK in accepting a blood fraction that someone else donated but should have poured out on the ground.

And then there was the obvious problem with billions of people being fecked at the Big A. What's almost worse is the amount of people being born everyday into a situation of injustice and death. Yet most Witnesses want to believe this isn't the case yet can't work out why this makes a mockery of the "warning" work.

16

They lie about everything, why don’t they lie about annual publisher growth?

by John Aquila in

jwfacts show that publisher growth was 15% pre- 1975 and has decline to about 2%.

what prevents them from fudging the annual growth and keeping it at something more positive like 10%?.

"a great crowd that no man is able to number".

konceptual99

Don't forget that relatively few look in detail at the annual report and even less look at it in comparison with historical records.

They use headline figures like number of hours and peaks of publishers and studies. They use figure like number baptised, divvy it by 52 and come up with 5000 people being baptised each week, implying there are 50 congregations a week being formed. Not true - there are just as many dying, fading, getting thrown out.

They don't point out that there are more hours for less results. They don't point out it takes 7000+ hours to get one person baptised. They don't point out the obvious stagnation in developed lands.

Figures around how many kingdom halls need to be built are another great headline but the reality is that very few congregations in Western lands actually NEED a KH in that they don't have one or it's completely unsuitable. Who cares - quoting 1000s of halls are needed in the US, Canada, UK, France etc. just makes everyone think there is crazy growth.

The figures have been fudged for years and because too few care no one has noticed. On the other hand, I don't think the same is true about the constant pitch for cash. I am not suggesting this will be the big wake up call to the masses but I don't get the feeling that as many are prepared to suck up the bullshit as perhaps the GB would like.

64

What triggered your doubts / awakening?

by Tornintwo in

i am sort of new here, used a different username for a while but things got 'difficult' at home so i've since been lurking.... what i would be really interested to know, if you don't mind sharing, is what it was that triggered your doubts and initial research which led to awakening, was it a bad experience, injustice, changed doctrine?

for me, it was seeing mistreatment of young ones in the congregation, they're under so much pressure and as soon as they go even slightly astray they are shunned, either informally (as bad associations which pushes them further into the 'world') or formally - with elders dying to throw the book at them so they even lose their family.... ...then reading about child abuse issues in the press.... ...which led me to silentlambs.

...then jw facts, this forum and coc, wham!

konceptual99

For me it was a slow burn. I had always tried to do the right thing and be obedient but always erred on the side of liberalism - e.g. I saw no need to pioneer from school or your level of visible activity being the critical indicator of your spirituality. I also had long standing questions about squaring the pseudo science of the Creation account, the Flood etc with what secular sources were saying.

I served as an MS for many years and it was only my attitude to the ministry that prevented me from being appointed as an elder. I regularly played a game of logic with elders sent round to use unscriptural reasoning to try and guilt me into pretending to do more.

Anyway, there was a point where a member of my family who was a long serving elder was very badly treated and thrown out for a completely stupid reason. This really made me question the real nature of the body of elders and where their loyalties really lay.

From there I started to question if the organisation really was displaying the love I felt Christ practiced. I also started reading Dawkins and others on evolution. That led me to start look at sites like JWFacts. I then got a copy of CoC which I devoured.

I was already aware of the UN scandal but had kind of parked that as perhaps a little overblown by apostates. On second reading however, in the light of the other CoC revelations I was far more outraged.

By the time I started participating on this site I was already well on my way to being completely mentally out. It did not take that much longer before I was convinced the Witnesses did not have the "Truth" and, even more critically, I came to doubt the existence of God at all.

[EDIT] - Oh and then there was all the changes to the generation and other teachings that just seemed to suggest the GB knew bugger all about anything.

36

How long until the "Generation" gets Revised/Dropped?

by Lemonp in

if you don't already know this; the latest revision of the insight book has no mention of the "overlapping generation" bs online library, insight book .

obviously that change will not bee seen by the vast majority of people, so when will this "brighter light" shine through in a wt or assembly talk?

predictions?.

konceptual99

Dropping the generation, or at the very least reducing the significance of it is entirely possible. The wording change in the Insight Book already removes the specific argumentation that it has a modern day fulfilment.

The overlapping teaching still gives them significant time to simply stop talking about it.

The move to online publication storage means that an increasing number of dubs will not have access to material within "approved" channels that says anything different to the current teaching. Of course the info will be there but only if you are prepared to hit the apostate sites.

Given the recent argumentation used about the F&DS Slave being more "discrete" now by assigning less and less significance to parables in the Bible I can see a time when there could be QFR that comes out with some reasoning that the generation only had a literal application in Jesus day and the discrete thing to do now is simply serve Jehovah without a time limit in mind.

The significance of the generation teaching is now only really felt by ones in their late 30s and older - the ones who lived through the use of the generation teaching (and memorial partakers) as a sign of the imminence of the big A. Give it 10 years and all the current crop of young men that become the elders of the future will have no comprehension of the emphasis and import placed on the teaching what is ALREADY 20+ years ago.

8

JW Library app with convention releases ?

by Elisa1966 in

they are talking on jwtalk about this, but no details.

has anyone access to jw library ?

just curious... :-)

konceptual99

I don't think the releases will be up until they have been released at the first convention this weekend.

31

Catch phrases used by the GB

by stuckinarut2 in

i read a comment on another thread that made me think of this topic.. how many catchphrases are used by the gb and organisation in an attempt to control or gain power or prevent questioning?

feel free to list as many as you can think of!.

i'll start:.

konceptual99

I think the most important one now is "the privilege of using our valuable things"....

36

"Be Kind to the Fornicators in the Congregation!" -- New August Watchtower

by FusionTheism in

have you noticed the article entitled "watch your associations in these last days" in the new august 2015 study watchtower?.

unless i'm reading it wrong, or somehow misinterpreting it, it is saying that we should be kind to intentional breakers of god's laws inside and outside the congregation, including fornicators, but that we must not be close associates with them.. are they already preparing for a shift in their disfellowshipping practices?.

here are the relevant paragraphs:.

konceptual99

Got to agree with maninthemiddle.

14

What did you think when you visit the museum as a JW.

by James Mixon in

when you stood there in front of that dinosaur display did you connect the.

dots, or did you like me believe that they made a mistake in calculating their.

ages.

konceptual99

Just for anyone visiting London....

The British Museum contains archaeological antiquities "acquired" from all parts of the globe but is particularly renowned for it's ancient middle east and Egyptian artefacts. There has been increasing contention about the circumstances under which lots of objects were obtained during the time of the British Empire. On the other hand, you could say having a load of material safely stored in London is a hell of a lot safer than anywhere ISIL are active ATM.

The Natural History Museum is where you need to go for fossils.

Both are free to visit, only special exhibitions are charged for. Great fun can be had on most Saturday mornings at the BM when, as already mentioned, "tour guide" dubs lead coach loads of Witnesses (all dressed up) around looking at artefacts that supposedly confirm Biblical events. Just follow along then drop in some choice questions about 607...

14

What did you think when you visit the museum as a JW.

by James Mixon in

when you stood there in front of that dinosaur display did you connect the.

dots, or did you like me believe that they made a mistake in calculating their.

ages.

konceptual99

Going to the Natural History Museum and seeing the skulls representing the timeline of human evolution was part of my wake up process. How anyone can go there and not question something about WT chronology is beyond me.

36

How long until the "Generation" gets Revised/Dropped?

by Lemonp in

if you don't already know this; the latest revision of the insight book has no mention of the "overlapping generation" bs online library, insight book .

obviously that change will not bee seen by the vast majority of people, so when will this "brighter light" shine through in a wt or assembly talk?

predictions?.

konceptual99

Just to be clear....

This is the section from the 2012 WT LIB

“This Generation” of Christ’s Prophecies. When Bible prophecy speaks of “this generation,” it is necessary to consider the context to determine what generation is meant. Jesus Christ, when denouncing the Jewish religious leaders, concluded by saying: “Truly I say to you, All these things will come upon this generation.” History recounts that about 37 years later (in 70 C.E.) that contemporary generation personally experienced the destruction of Jerusalem, as foretold.—Mt 23:36.
Later that same day, Jesus again used practically the same words, saying: “Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.” (Mt 24:34) In this instance, Jesus was answering a question regarding the desolation of Jerusalem and its temple as well as regarding the sign of his presence and of the conclusion of the system of things. Before his reference to “this generation,” however, he had focused his remarks specifically on his “coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory” and the nearness of the Kingdom of God. Immediately afterward, he continued with references to his “presence.” (Mt 24:30, 37, 39; Lu 21:27, 31) Jesus was using the word “generation” with reference to humans whose lives would in some way be associated with the foretold events.—Mt 24.
The people of this 20th-century generation living since 1914 have experienced these many terrifying events concurrently and in concentrated measure—international wars, great earthquakes, terrible pestilences, widespread famine, persecution of Christians, and other conditions that Jesus outlined in Matthew chapter 24, Mark chapter 13, and Luke chapter 21.

This is the section from the WOL:

“This Generation” of Christ’s Prophecies. When Bible prophecy speaks of “this generation,” it is necessary to consider the context to determine what generation is meant. Jesus Christ, when denouncing the Jewish religious leaders, concluded by saying: “Truly I say to you, All these things will come upon this generation.” History recounts that about 37 years later (in 70 C.E.) that contemporary generation personally experienced the destruction of Jerusalem, as foretold.—Mt 23:36.

Later that same day, Jesus again used practically the same words, saying: “Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.” (Mt 24:34) In this instance, Jesus was answering a question regarding the desolation of Jerusalem and its temple as well as regarding the sign of his presence and of the conclusion of the system of things. So his comment about “this generation” logically had an application down to 70 C.E. However, he was also using the word “generation” with reference to humans whose lives would in some way be associated with the foretold events during his presence.—Mt 24.

I think it is interesting they have not mentioned the current understanding and removed the justification for application in the modern day. They have honed that down to one sentence containing the ambiguous phase "whose lives would in some way".
This very easily could be a step in the direction of dropping the generation teaching or, pushing it to something so abstract so as to be meaningless.
Time will tell...