Posts by TheWonderofYou

6

Learning to live with Islam...oops, I mean Watchtower

by cappytan in

jw
friends

you guys should learn to live with islam watchtower.

islam watchtower is a religion of peace.

yes, there are some at the top that say crazy things, and there are some individuals in the mosque congregation that treat people badly and try to excuse cover up terrorism pedophilia.

TheWonderofYou

Here is some education.

A first picture shows a wonderful citation of Quran, the most peaceful verse in the book directly writtin in heavens.

Next shows an english translation of the full text. How often has it been recited million times?

The sura 5.32 so far describes the situation in old Israel, how there the mischiefs were treated,

Maybe the most peaceful as many say, but did you read further and can you explain how a mischief in the land of islam should be treated according to sura 5,33

Do both verses circle around capital punishment of mischiefs or in the situation of war against gods people?

____

What I would like to know, do little children who learn quoran, already read and recitate such sura?
Is it really the most peaceful sura?

I think these verses need explanation for the children, to see how is PEACE full-ness shall be taught today to children and to understand that the sura only were given to Mohammed for a distinct situation and should not be seen as eternal prinicples.

BTW The peaceful sura 5,32 is a text that is copied or taken over from jewish rabbinic contemporary literature of the 8.century ( it is mistakingly referencing a rabbinical commentary found in the Talmud, namely Sanhedrin 37 a) in near asia, its a jewish description about how in old Israel they interpreted the mosaic law and adopted it in judicial procedure and in punishment. So Allah inspired Jews to write this peacful sura or to think so peacefully, that should be not forgotten.

Here the original jewish text:

For this reason was man created alone, to teach thee that whosoever destroys a single soul of israel, scripture imputes [guilt] to him as though he had destroyed a complete world; and whosoever preserves a single soul of israel, scripture ascribes [merit] to him as though he had preserved a complete world. Talmud Sanhedrin 37a

Looks like a jewish Wishdom is claimed to be from Allah and the Quran alone.

Look this link for a deeper discussion about the parallesism:

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Parallelism:_Sa

Mischief = apostasy, disobidience and many other things. many interpreters thought that apostates should be killed.

25

Is the JW Broadcasting having good results for the Org?

by thewalker in

jw
friends

when speaking with brothers, i can see they really like the jw.org site more than magazines and books.

i can imagine them publishing more and more articles and news as it's more dynamic and creates a sense of alert with brothers looking for new articles to read instead of the boring monthly magazines.. but when it comes to the jw broadcasting, it's something different.

even elders admit they aren't watching the monthly broadcastings.

TheWonderofYou

So it seems like that watching the broadcast is free or is the attendance noticed?

If someone is afraid of talking about the new items in "last monthly broadcast" it could be only because one didn watch it at all, because of some reason one doesnt like it, or one doesnt like watchting TV at all or prefers other TV shows.

Would this be a good entry for a talk or would you get in danger that?

" Hi, did you watch the latest broadcast"?

"Errrmm,brother I didnt have time to watch, but i think this weekend we will do it at home, Why?"

"Oh, I like the point that Bro...made about the "shift" in the "slapping sorry lapping generation", it s not important at all, it seems that only me watches every monthly edition HA, perhaps because I like watching series at all."

'Really, do you watch many series, which do you like"?

"..Besides .... I like WOL most, but did you know Tthat?"

"What is "W-O-L"?

"The Online library, really great tool, but I mean did you know TTHAtttt hmmm the broadcast is not so much successful as they wanted it to be, brothers from Europe told me TTHAttt they find it strange to hear the brothers talk in american english?"

"Ahh, really, Thatttt is interesting, perhaps the monthly broadcast is only a test and will be ceased if people are not attending but the videos on demand could be much better too, you know what i mean, THATT is interesting.

"Why are you saying "Thatt"..... do you think that the slave has bet on the wrong horse?"

"No, no that could not be, but they will certainly make neceseary adapation if that is necessary ...sometimes"

"if THATT should ever be true, i would be not so much disappointed, we will see, JHWH will provide us with the best education always".. only THATT is 100 % secure.

"Eeeemm Brother, you shouldnt use the wordl THAT so often because it sound somehow strange to here from your lips."

"Why, is it the pronouncation I am no mother tongue speaker you know?"

"No it is because there is a rumor, you know, i must not tell about it because I only heard it was told to some upper, but it sounds very interesting"

"Whatttt do you meeeeaaan?"

"That a new generation will take over soon the leadership in the organisation, they know about the truth and they use the term "That" as distinctive mark".

"Oh really, i didnt know that, but sound like some of us are really brave and are awoken. I trust full in Jehovah TTHAT he will bring us the best future ever - did you ever doubt anything?

"Oh yes often and many things ... you know that ...I dont understand why we are not allowed to act according to our christian conscience but are always watchted by the elders, i should say that, but is is over-jugded and over..... the heart is missing... perhaps I shouldnt say that, but even talking about any doubts is not allowed because you could have soon get a visit by the elders.... I think THATT is really a problem. But I love Jehovah."

71

Living with Islam

by fulltimestudent in

indonesia is a large nation to the north of australia.

more than 250 million people live there, and around 204 million (88%) are muslim.

the indonesian armed forces have nearly a million personnel, either as active servicemen or reservists.. australia, with a population of 23 million, and an armed forces of 80,000 (active and reservist), has no choice but to live in co-operation with indonesia, though the relationship is sometimes strained.

TheWonderofYou

Greetings

71

Living with Islam

by fulltimestudent in

indonesia is a large nation to the north of australia.

more than 250 million people live there, and around 204 million (88%) are muslim.

the indonesian armed forces have nearly a million personnel, either as active servicemen or reservists.. australia, with a population of 23 million, and an armed forces of 80,000 (active and reservist), has no choice but to live in co-operation with indonesia, though the relationship is sometimes strained.

TheWonderofYou

The founder of the modern Republic of Turkey, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk said

on October 29, 1923: " There may be a many great countries in the world, but there is only one civilisation (the West) and if a nation is to achieve progress she must be part of this one civilisation. The Ottoman empire began to decline the day when it cut ties that bound her to the european nations. We will not repeat this mistake."
quoted in Bozdaglioglu, Turkish Foreign policy and turkish identity P. 51.

(This view is opposite of that held by turkish islamist, to the leaders of the ideologic group the once-glorious ottoman empire began to decline and disintegrate when it started to imitate the West (Hale and Özbudun, Islamis, Democracy and Liberalism in Turkey p.6.)

[Source: "The Clash of Ideologies" by Mark L. Haas, p 202]

As many hope that modern Turkey can be a bridge between ideologies and between East and West this may be interesting

Here some further opinions held by Atatürk, who is "adored" by turkish people.

Religion is an important institution. A nation without religion cannot survive. Yet it is also very important to note that religion is a link betweenAllah and the individual believer. The brokerage of the pious cannot be permitted. Those who use religion for their own benefit are detestable. We are against such a situation and will not allow it. Those who use religion in such a manner have fooled our people; it is against just such people that we have fought and will continue to fight. Know that whatever conforms to reason, logic, and the advantages and needs of our people conforms equally to Islam. If our religion did not conform to reason and logic, it would not be the perfect religion, the final religion.
As quoted in Kemalizm, Laiklik ve Demokrasi [Kemalism, Laicism and Democracy] (1994) by Ahmet Taner Kışlalı

"I have no religion, and at times I wish all religions at the bottom of the sea. He is a weak ruler who needs religion to uphold his government; it is as if he would catch his people in a trap. My people are going to learn the principles of democracy, the dictates of truth and the teachings of science.Superstition must go. Let them worship as they will; every man can follow his own conscience, provided it does not interfere with sane reason or bid him against the liberty of his fellow-men."
Quoted in Atatürk: The Biography of the founder of Modern Turkey, by Andrew Mango; "In a book published in 1928, Grace Ellison quotes [Atatürk], presumably in 1926-27", Grace Ellison Turkey Today (London: Hutchinson, 1928) [ found https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mustafa_Kemal_Atat%C3%BCrk]

63

What were Satan and his demons "doing" up in heaven, before being "cast down" in 1914?

by Dunedain in

i was just thinking about how the wts has been spouting off for years that satan and his demons were cast down to the vicinity of the earth in 1914, but really, when you think about it, what was the difference before 1914 or after 1914?.

its not like satan and his demons did not have access to the earth.

satan and his demons always were messing with earth.

TheWonderofYou

Am I missing something?

Plaese add open points for clearing with the service department:

- what did Satan in Heaven before 1914
- why happened in this heavenly war
- what means thrown down unto earth

....

_______

What if the whole story is only a distraction?

As clecer devil and master of distraction he knew that the bible, the book he hated, already had fortold 1914 years in advance that he would be thrown out 1914 from heaven down to earth ...impossible? but moment:

"to the vicinity of the earth" or "to the earth"? Was it no directly unto the earth and not to the vicinity as the slope W "w" writes.? Does w again misinterprete bible?

As even the least green bible reader must know that satan was dissed, Satan would not langer have fun in watching war and murder alone if any looser already knew that he was the spirit behind evil.

So he hacked out a new plan, he wanted to destroy the religions and the trust in god and religion finally. Noone should trust christians muslim and buddhist. How could he achieve that. With the fraternal wars it had already begun, but no the basis of all beliefes had to be destroyed and weakened by proofed science, bible exegesis and logic thinking and the Enlightment as well as Humanism and Philosophy. The enlightened could be one group and the cultist the other group, who could again fight each other and satan would watch how they hate each other. Tthat would be a story for tomoorow.Good night everybody, I go sleep.

41

Sheep and the Goats - The Light Gets Brighter

by nmthinker in

perhaps some of you remember a new understanding of the sheep and the goats in the epic march 2015 wt study edition - specifically the article "loyally supporting christ's brothers".. while this article was studied many months ago, it was instrumental in helping me wake up.

during my study of the 2015 article i recalled that we had just revised our understanding of the sheep and the goats a few years ago and this caused me to research the real progression of the jw understanding of this parable.

i put the results of my research in an excel spreadsheet.. .

TheWonderofYou

Khaleesi: I am happy to see that so many are in the real "bright" light and can see the real truth.

___

mmthinker: the 6 explicit acts of love mentioned above indicate for themselves already that the area of love is going beyond the frame of the "brothers of christ" = "all disciples" [not only the elitarian group of some few blesses] and comprises all marginal and little people in the whole world. Do I have a proof for that? The proof is perhaps that the message of love should be brought by the disciples to the whole world and so everybody would be comprised.Let me proof my thesis tomorrow, because my time is to short now and find a proof.

Principally the majority of bible exegists agree that the least (minor, marginal) brothers of christ, (emphasize the least) [note: JW dont mention the marginal brothers] are all men whose existence is threatened. The least are all men who suffer poverty, hunger and privation.

Mat 25,40 "Whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41

Sheep and the Goats - The Light Gets Brighter

by nmthinker in

perhaps some of you remember a new understanding of the sheep and the goats in the epic march 2015 wt study edition - specifically the article "loyally supporting christ's brothers".. while this article was studied many months ago, it was instrumental in helping me wake up.

during my study of the 2015 article i recalled that we had just revised our understanding of the sheep and the goats a few years ago and this caused me to research the real progression of the jw understanding of this parable.

i put the results of my research in an excel spreadsheet.. .

TheWonderofYou

The 6 acts of love mentioned in the parabel are not acts of preaching the word, talking about God or the kingdom message

but very personal acts of mercy (biblical language) in case of dire straits, happening to the most week, situations in which notbody can be unconcerned, mercy for everyman will be measured.

1 I have been hungry

2.I have been thursty

3. have been a stranger

4. I have been nude

5. I have been sick

6. I have been in prison

The blessed did what?

1. you gave me to eat

2. you gave me to drink

3. You have accomodated me

4. You have clothed me

5. you have taken care

6. you seeked me out

Note again the personal formulation of the acts.

The damned could have corresponded at least to this measure if they wanted.

Not hard work at kingdom halls or assembly halls or much money donation is demanded or that the blessed cared for change of society structures, cared for stop all hunger in the world, or defeating the cancer and other diseases, or built a society without prisons,

but a personal aid that every simple man can give.

Isn't this the proof that the Watchtower is wrong? Its clear, we know that, but if the Watchtower already in so simple things teaches heresy, how could we ever trust any word.

_____

Please note the connection to the 2 commandments of love.

Preaching of the Word, talking about God and Jesus and his kingdom, about forgiveness and repentance is corresponding to the first commandment:[Honoring God and his name, reputation]
“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment.39
Acts of mercy and love to brothers and neigbours is part of the second commandment.
And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

41

Sheep and the Goats - The Light Gets Brighter

by nmthinker in

perhaps some of you remember a new understanding of the sheep and the goats in the epic march 2015 wt study edition - specifically the article "loyally supporting christ's brothers".. while this article was studied many months ago, it was instrumental in helping me wake up.

during my study of the 2015 article i recalled that we had just revised our understanding of the sheep and the goats a few years ago and this caused me to research the real progression of the jw understanding of this parable.

i put the results of my research in an excel spreadsheet.. .

TheWonderofYou

According to this new light, those who are sheep are those who support Christ's brothers, either by preaching or, as the illustration shows, engaging in building and maintaining kingdom halls. If you don't do this you will be judged a goat.

We never should forget that the 6 deeds of love in the parable

-

63

What were Satan and his demons "doing" up in heaven, before being "cast down" in 1914?

by Dunedain in

i was just thinking about how the wts has been spouting off for years that satan and his demons were cast down to the vicinity of the earth in 1914, but really, when you think about it, what was the difference before 1914 or after 1914?.

its not like satan and his demons did not have access to the earth.

satan and his demons always were messing with earth.

TheWonderofYou

But Satan knew that it was difficult enough to spread "worldly thoughts" and "weird spirit" from distant heaven and destroy humanity. So he very much dreamt of coming closer to earth, and so he made an uproar in heaven (a fratricidal war, what he had learned from men).

MICHAEL CHRIST had not calculated such an uproar to take place 2. October 1914, it was the day of Christ Michael planned to end the gentile times after all and it was Christ day of enthronement as king of the universial and heavenly kingdom but sadly Satan destroyed Christs most beautiful day of his enthronement, completely. The First day of Christs kingdom was the worst that Michael Christ ever had, his own brother (Satan was his brother) wanted to kill him and bond him, and the kille the lovely angels, it was war against theocracy.

What then happend was excactly what Satan wanted to achieve:

He wanted (it was calculated) to be thrown out heaven and to be bonded in the vicinity of the earth, Why?

So he could not influence people only by worldy thoughts-spirit but actually be "bodily present" called bogey, though invisible, but very close for him to be in good position to watch man doing weird things and killing themselves.

Finally Satan could than beginning with 2.Oct.1914 personally take part in the World war and fight with human weapons for the first time, he killed many and liked it. He throw personally the atomic bombs.

Although nobody believes me, this must be happend, and as Russel said this must be a confirmation because it got worse and worse, better weapns were invented and the world lived in such a danger.

63

What were Satan and his demons "doing" up in heaven, before being "cast down" in 1914?

by Dunedain in

i was just thinking about how the wts has been spouting off for years that satan and his demons were cast down to the vicinity of the earth in 1914, but really, when you think about it, what was the difference before 1914 or after 1914?.

its not like satan and his demons did not have access to the earth.

satan and his demons always were messing with earth.

TheWonderofYou

It was at Bethel Brooklyn, 2nd Oct. 1914 when a group of handfull anointed who believed that they would be immediately raptured if the gentile times ended held its morning worship, when absolutely happened nothing.

The bethel family under the leadership of Russel prayed and speculated but neither Christ began to reign nor Satan appeared.

The only thing that happened was that Russelit bibelstudents sat together, Russel talked to the bethelbrothers that the GENTILE TIMES had ended and speculated about the meaning of the year 1914, insofar as he said that the outbreak of the war in July or August 1914 was the confirmation that the "theocracy rule in heaven" had begun.

But note: The WordWar I had just begun months before Satan was thrown out of the heaven (what must have happened 2 October 1914, the day when Christ began to reign) because the WW1 began on 28. July, 1914 and not on 2nd October 1914.

This confirms that the World-War I began before the kingdom was established in heaven on 2. October 1914 and Satan was not yet in the vicinity of the Earth. He was not the Warlord, the men did a weird job alone.

________

But what could Satan have done while he watched the murdering of the heir apparant and the outbreak of such a big war?

Satan liked wars and he watched them like we watch movies. He wanted to improve his techniques in all possible wickedness and he learned them all from men. He watched so many wars, the slaughters, battles.... But Satan liked most watching how christian killed christians in the Thirty Years War.

Brothers against brothers of christian nations fought against each other bestially. He like how the women and children suffered and how the bloodthrusty man thought that killing would be a whole ware, a whole act, because they were APOSTATES, he like fighting as duty.

He learned in Hussite wars, balkan wars, silesian wars, turk-seldjukian-wars, crussades... each century was a new experience for him, his bloodthirst could not be stilled. His most time Satan spent in watcht men killing each other. Nobody could fulfill Satans lust for watching more hardcore wars.

So Satan hacked out a plan how he could fulfill his dreams, mostly he liked that brothers killed each other, so he firstly influenced religious people to hate APOSTATES, Sunni should kill Shia-muslim and of course Kurds-apostates and all kuffar=unbelievers if they are not obidient, protestant should kill catolics and vice-versa and so on, they only would do that if they strongly believe the brother is an apostate.

So while Satan was in heaven he could only spiritually influence earth and this he did mostly by cultic mind control. That was already very effective and so the world was wicked and whored.

An ongoing story.