a vomit inducing comment.. i asked why do they have to specify 'meetings'?
they never miss us in tesco or the showcase cinema bar.. in their defence, a friend of mine said: 'that's because the meeting is where they normally would see you.'.
well, if they want to see you they can arrange a meal out or something.
Thanks for the lovely image of a sister awaiting the meetings.
I really always looked hard for a sister in my district but I could not find one who fell in love with me and with whom I could go to the meetings and praying and together holding hands and singing to Jiova. This was one reason why I faded. And my dream did not fulfill.
a vomit inducing comment.. i asked why do they have to specify 'meetings'?
they never miss us in tesco or the showcase cinema bar.. in their defence, a friend of mine said: 'that's because the meeting is where they normally would see you.'.
well, if they want to see you they can arrange a meal out or something.
Your effort to come to the "meetings" is what counts.
Its the best proof of appreciation for gods arrangements.
If you lived far away from a kingdom hall and took upon you to walk dozens of miles over snow covered mountain passes in crackly frostiness or through mexican desert near some dangerous geyzers, this would be a good experience to tell on a convention, an example of appreciation. Then you should of course not forget your donation for the world wide work. Perhaps somewhen you can afford building a kingdom hall nearer to your place behind the pass or in the desert
Sitting on your laptop and listening to the morning worship over internet or watching JW broadcast behind the mountanin pass is not the same as coming togehter with sis and bro's. But you could try out at home the paypal function to receive the latest printed edition of ever revised bible at your distant location.
a vomit inducing comment.. i asked why do they have to specify 'meetings'?
they never miss us in tesco or the showcase cinema bar.. in their defence, a friend of mine said: 'that's because the meeting is where they normally would see you.'.
well, if they want to see you they can arrange a meal out or something.
It happened about 3 weeks after I stopped attending the meetings that the I received a postcard of an elder who reminded me of the bible passage Hebrew 10,24-25 NASB "let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together".
I never again attended a meeting anyway after my decision.
After that two elders visited me at home, but we didnt allow them to enter, because I had decided to make my own decisions. Then one phoned me at work and asked me private questions about my belief.
If I wanted to be one of them at all. And I answered something like "Presently I cannot imagine that, i love her really". That was enough.
Since after DFment no private meetings are allowed in this cult, it happens of course only accidently that I pass by at a Watchtower-bearing elder who proclaims gods kingdom at the corner of our city center square or I meet one in the library.
As the elders are surprisingly talking with me if I talk to them, i said "I thank you, but I love her". Comments like "Read the Bible again" or "You should decide yourself for the truth and not follow her", "there is only one truth you know it ,dont you" or "You can write a letter and ask for revision, thats no problem" are typical unnecessary street conversations.Younger ones Fellow R&F friends have said something like. "I know how it is to be DF, look I have been DF too, I divcorced my wife and now I have new one. This bro died and that too in the meantime, Sis is already married, fancy that....I understand that you are in a difficult situation. as your wife is not religious. We are now more concentration on family matters, we dont study with our children the Armageddon study articles any more, our children are afraid of the words and are yet small...you have always been a searcher....Come to the meetings.".
a day in the life.
i took a hot bath this morning.
then, after making my bed and saying "good morning" to my roommate, sana--i jumped on my bike and headed off to breakfast.sound exciting enough for you yet?
that was a quote from a dyed in the wool jw recently.
it was a complaint.. we all know that with 'new light(tm)' that the watchtower corporation's version of 'religion' has kept changing for a long time.
since i remember.....and i go back a long way too.
It was even difficult 30 years ago when I was in, to stay on the ball with the arrangements.
The Neverending Story
From lost paradise to regained
XXVI edition
on (new testament scholar) bart ehrman's blog, the topic of luke's view of the purpose of jesus'.
death has been discussed.. in that discussion, ehrman points out how luke did not set forth the idea of atonement, rather luke set forth the idea of forgiveness.. on the other hand, mark and paul teach atonement.. these two points of view have been "mashed together" into a package deal, apparently, throughout history by theologians.. _________________________.
someone pays a debt owed by another.
Neither, both ideas seem to have arosen in jewish environment indeed, but i think they shouldnt be connected or mixed up with the idea of "financial debt towards God", as well as the former opinion that it was a debt to satan was mislesding.
I cant imagine that the jewish christians thought generally of God in such a manner, that god quantifies sins, failure, guilt as" debts " on an account or on a scale.
That atonement sacrificies were an back-payment for someone failures or a legal judicial act to justify or satisfy God, than it was a misinterpretation or could have been meant metaphorical.
Redemption could also be metaphorically explained as backpayment, whereas it means redemption of sins on not of debts, jesus redeems from a sinful way a way of mental slavery not slavery of an inherited debt weight.
Atonement was used because becsuse for many jews the atonement day in the temple was in good remembrance, but it was clear for everyone that the sins were ritually symbolicly covered and without forgiveness between parties everything was useless anyway.
At Jesus time mainly Sadducees would insist on a literal adaption and use the thora and sacrificies and put emphazise on the "atoning"and the "arc of the covenant"..and its hilasterion. What I should check whether they used the "debt" Metapher already than.. Pharesean would like to explain the matter more as forgiveness but either not of a debt but more of a sinful behaviour referring more to the prophets and not to leviticus, would be interesting to know how the Essenians thought about it
God then didnt want anything back, but if someone sinned = chooses a way against his conscience, god wanted repentance of hearts. God didnt want a human sacrifice but human hearts that sacrifice themselves,
Jesus had such a sacrifing heart, later that was described "gave his life for us", and if we love someone we will have to sacrifice something mostly. So Jesus death was a symbol that love vindicates anything evil.
So i think this could be how a merciful gods thinks about backpayment, redemption or atonement or forgiveness.
hello and excuse my not perfect knowledge of english.
when i've started studying the bible when i was 13 one of the first subjects i was teached was about genesis.
the first two humans were supposedly perfect which by bible's means it meant that they couldn't die nor get ill. this meant that at least humans couldn't get diseases.
You muzzeled me.
mmmm those peple who wrote down that oriental sayings never in their best imagination wanted that someone took the Genesis literal. If they would have known of JW-books they had written it otherwise. They would have said:
"Havent we said that God is merciful anyway somewhere in the text, why do they always think that we say God only wants obidience, let us check the text of garden of eden and noahs arch for the application in the 21st century
i have some updates and new information on the downsizing in bethel.
25% of all bethelites around the world will be sent home.
in the us over 1,000 will be sent home.
i have some updates and new information on the downsizing in bethel.
25% of all bethelites around the world will be sent home.
in the us over 1,000 will be sent home.
I always wondered why 30 years ago my favourite presiding overseer asked me, why I was not applying to university, obviously here in my country the leeway is larger.
Sorry for all those who have to change the lifeplan and thought they were in a provident order.
Its a general problem that all religious corporations want to have power over your life and thoughts, manpower and money but dont want the fiduciary duty, the duty of care.
"A legal obligation of one party to act in the best interest of another. The obligated party is typically ad fiduciary, that is, someone entrusted with the care of money or property. Also called fiduciary obligation."
Read more: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/fiduciary-duty.html#ixzz3oNiPZLnd
many people are understandably upset and angry at the notion that jws have the right to shun people.
it seems such an obvious "no brainer" cruel and inhuman thing to do - it must be wrong ... surely?.
of course we look at things from the perspective of those hurt and harmed by shunning.
The institution teaches and traines the members e.g. parents in the correct method how to discipline and execute the "loving arrangement", what we saw on the conventions. The subservient obidience to gods will namely to "hate" apostates and humble acceptance of one's role in this process as well as working togehter with the elders' care is part of the institutional procedere.
This institutional allowence has the effect that many simple suppress the natural feelings in the mind and add indiviudal punishing methods that even exceeds the usual humantiarian tolerant appropriate good behaviour. The institutional' group allowence opens door for heartless cruelty. Therefore the trigger is the organisation, it is its responsiblity to say how far. It does it very good labelling and defining which contacts are allowed, but many go beyond, others not, others even dont stop greating. There are those too, they understand that christian have to show loving or perhaps they experienced the hell in their own family.
Simon: Sometimes the shunning is an excuse for them to be cruel, not the cause of it.
Sometimes in the future ,if the organisation was in danger, they will emphasize the individual responsibility. They will say, "we never said that, it was always an individual decision of each member. We only encouraged them to be better christians...."
