leaving_quietly

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Posts by leaving_quietly

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  34

  Is Armageddon part of the Great Tribulation? what was WT writers word?

  by prologos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  or put into other words:.

  is armageddon included in in "all the things" that are to come to pass during the 'generation' that jesus spoke about?.

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  leaving_quietly

  Vanderhoven7, are you of the opinion that Matt 24 only has one fulfillment and that has come and gone? Just curious.
• 
  34

  Is Armageddon part of the Great Tribulation? what was WT writers word?

  by prologos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  or put into other words:.

  is armageddon included in in "all the things" that are to come to pass during the 'generation' that jesus spoke about?.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  leaving_quietly

  Regarding the quote by “leaving_quietly” mentioned above, “So, the tribulation does not culminate in Armageddon, according to Jesus. Right AFTER the tribulation, is when signs in heaven will be and when the "second coming" occurs,” that could not be correct. A correct rendering of that would read: “Right AFTER that specific part of the tribulation, . . .”; i.e., right after that initial phase of the Great Tribulation when Babyon the Great is to be turned on. The Great Tribulation refers to the whole thing – including Armageddon as the very last part of it.

  Yes, this is what WT teaches.

  how can Armageddon, with it's promised >7 million survivors, and that at least will spare the animal/birds,-- not be included in it?

  Good question.

  This is a difficult subject to truly understand as most of us have a one-sided of what Armageddon is. According to Revelation 16:13-16, Armageddon is a PLACE where the kings of the earth (and presumably their armies) are gathered together for the war against God's armies. There is no mention here of non-military people. Rev 19:19-21 seems to be a description of this same event, where again, it's the kings of the earth, and their armies.

  The question is, is Armageddon the event that WT makes it out to be? As I read these verses just now, it seems to me it's the ultimate fulfillment of Daniel 2:44, the part where it says of God's kingdom, "It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms."

  Noteworthy is Rev 16:15, an interjection, right before talking about Armageddon: "“Look! I am coming as a thief. Happy is the one who stays awake and keeps his outer garments, so that he may not walk naked and people look upon his shamefulness.”"
  
  This seems to imply that it happens BEFORE Christ's second coming, or perhaps as part of it.

  So, I don't know myself. I only know what WT teaches. Whether Armageddon is part of the great tribulation or not and whether it involved everyone or not, I simply don't know. Part of me says no. Part of me says yes. It's one of those topics that I'll have to mark: "inconclusive". For now, at least.
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  34

  Is Armageddon part of the Great Tribulation? what was WT writers word?

  by prologos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  or put into other words:.

  is armageddon included in in "all the things" that are to come to pass during the 'generation' that jesus spoke about?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  leaving_quietly

  leaving quietly: " -- GT culminates in Armageddon--" so does that mean wt doctrine is that A is part of the GT?

  Yes. More recently, the doctrine changed slightly, but with a similar thought:

  *** w13 7/15 p. 5 par. 8 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***
  What happens after the initial part of the great tribulation has passed? Jesus’ words indicate that there will be a period of time that will last until the start of Armageddon. What events will occur during that interval? The answer is recorded at Ezekiel 38:14-16 and Matthew 24:29-31. (Read.) After that, we will witness Armageddon, the climax of the great tribulation, which parallels Jerusalem’s destruction in 70 C.E. (Mal. 4:1) With the battle of Armageddon as its climax, that coming great tribulation will be unique—an event “such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning.” (Matt. 24:21) When it has passed, Christ’s Millennial Rule will begin.
  
  
  So, in their view, the GT doesn't end. It has phases, a start, a lull (which is apparently when the second coming is) and then Armageddon. But, Armageddon is still PART OF the great tribulation.
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  34

  Is Armageddon part of the Great Tribulation? what was WT writers word?

  by prologos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  or put into other words:.

  is armageddon included in in "all the things" that are to come to pass during the 'generation' that jesus spoke about?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  leaving_quietly

  I should have put more of the passage there.

  (Matthew 24:29-31) “Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity."

  So, the tribulation does not culminate in Armageddon, according to Jesus. Right AFTER the tribulation, is when signs in heaven will be and when the "second coming" occurs.

  It's possible that Armageddon comes after that. It's also possible that what WT refers to as the final test at the end of the 1000 years in Rev 20:8 is actually what Armageddon refers to. I'm not so certain about that, but it's something that some feel could be the case.
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  42

  My Elderette returns for a final Bible Study session, after I avoided her for 2 months (very long post)

  by Faithful Witness in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  some of this will be repeat, since it's been a little while since i posted about my "bible study" sessions with miss k, my elderette.

  we are talking about the name of jehovah.

  thanks for talking with us today.

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  leaving_quietly

  I have found it impossible to get a JW to express their own opinions or beliefs.

  JWs are trained NOT to express their own opinions or beliefs. They will have a scripture for everything, regardless of whether that scripture is used in the proper context or not.

  "I just know we have the TRUTH." and "I believe what the Bible says."

  Unless they are in union with Christ, they do not have the TRUTH.

  Take them to these verses:

  Christ said this to Pilate: "Everyone who is on the side of the truth listens to my voice." (John 18:37)
  
  Christ also said this: "Most truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves." (John 6:53).

  The question to ask: If Christ said that everyone on ths side of the truth listens to his voice, and said that they should eat his flesh and drink his blood (figuratively by the bread and the wine), and unless one does, they have no life in themselves, why is it that JWs largely refuse to do this at their annual memorial? And before answering that, keeping in mind that you said, "I believe what the Bible says," the Bible says at John 6:54: "Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day." JWs limit this to 144,000, but the Bible does not say that anywhere. The Bible says, "Whoever".
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  42

  God listens and RESPONDS to your prayer if you know how to log on to Him! Here is the proof.

  by exWTslave in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  all my family members and friends (that include some elders) advised me to divorce my wife whose only joy was to pick up fight with me for everything i do, except my grand-mother who said: when you married her, you looked for only her good pointher regular pioneering despite having an opposing family.

  for being good, you will ultimately reap something far better through her.

  stick on to her.

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  leaving_quietly

  This thread made me think of what was reported to have happened in Bible times. Both Peter and Paul fell into trances and had some sort of communication with God / the holy spirit. (Acts 11:5; 22:17) Both were praying at the time. Makes me wonder if the "visions" in the Bible were also as a result of a trance-like state.
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  34

  Is Armageddon part of the Great Tribulation? what was WT writers word?

  by prologos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  or put into other words:.

  is armageddon included in in "all the things" that are to come to pass during the 'generation' that jesus spoke about?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  leaving_quietly

  *** w08 5/15 p. 16 par. 19 Deliverance by God’s Kingdom Is at Hand! ***
  When we remember that on one occasion it took just one angel only a single night to “strike down a hundred and eighty-five thousand” of God’s enemies, we can be confident that the heavenly army will easily destroy every vestige of Satan’s system on earth as the great tribulation culminates in Armageddon.

  This, of course, flies in the face of scripture.

  Matt 24:29:
  “Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
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  42

  God listens and RESPONDS to your prayer if you know how to log on to Him! Here is the proof.

  by exWTslave in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  all my family members and friends (that include some elders) advised me to divorce my wife whose only joy was to pick up fight with me for everything i do, except my grand-mother who said: when you married her, you looked for only her good pointher regular pioneering despite having an opposing family.

  for being good, you will ultimately reap something far better through her.

  stick on to her.

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  leaving_quietly

  I have no reason to doubt your account and it took great courage to post it here where you likely knew you'd be mocked. Thanks for sharing.
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  100

  Can anyone disprove 607 BCE date using only the NWT and WT literature?

  by Bart Belteshassur in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i haven't come across any arguement that does not involve secular history and external references.

  in fact the wt can not get to 607 bce without using external sources as in knowing that they need to get back from 1914 ce to 607 bce, and botching an argument using an external date as reference to create their start point at 537 bce.. i realize that to get the final date we must provide a fixed figure from somewhere which can only be a historical source, but the objective would be to disprove the wt flim flam.

  once that is achieve we can use which ever fixed historical point they wish to chose.

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  leaving_quietly

  There is no need to disprove 607 B.C.E. One must first prove that there is a prophecy that points to 1914 in the first place.

  Here's the Society's official stance: http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/daniel-4-bible-chronology-1914

  Now, go READ Daniel 4 in its entirety and see if there's any room left for a SECOND fulfillment of the vision. Specifically verse 24.

  If there is no second fulfillment, then the whole 1914 chronology thing falls apart.
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  19

  Just an old illustration from "Religion"

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  source:.

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  leaving_quietly

  Wow. Color, no less.

  I'm amazed at how, um, sexy, that woman is. Doesn't even have any baby fat after having just given birth. Amazing!