Can anyone disprove 607 BCE date using only the NWT and WT literature?

by Bart Belteshassur 100 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Bart Belteshassur
    Bart Belteshassur

    If it is possible does anybody know where. I haven't come across any arguement that does not involve secular history and external references. In fact the WT can not get to 607 BCE without using external sources as in knowing that they need to get back from 1914 CE to 607 BCE, and botching an argument using an external date as reference to create their start point at 537 BCE.

    I realize that to get the final date we must provide a fixed figure from somewhere which can only be a historical source, but the objective would be to disprove the WT flim flam. Once that is achieve we can use which ever fixed historical point they wish to chose. Post Cyrus of course, goes without saying.

  • Honesty
    Honesty

    Yes.

    I have it saved in a file but am busy cooking so it will take a few minutes before I ca look for it.

  • wifibandit
  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Marked

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts
    Babylon fell "Babylon fell in 539 B.C." Babylon the Great Has Fallen - God's Kingdom Rules p.184 539 B.C.
    Plus Nabonidus "On the basis of cuneiform texts he is believed to have ruled some seventeen years(556-539 B.C.E.)." Aid to Bible Understanding - Nabonidus p.1195 17 years
    Plus Labashi-Marduk "Labashi-Marduk ... was a vicious boy, and within nine months he had his throat cut by an assassin." Babylon the Great Has Fallen - God's Kingdom Rules p.184 1 year
    Plus Neriglissar Neriglissar ... reigned four years Babylon the Great Has Fallen - God's Kingdom Rules p.184 4 years
    Plus Evil-Merodach "After reigning but two years King Evil-Merodach was murdered"Babylon the Great Has Fallen - God's Kingdom Rules p.184 2 years
    PlusNebuchadnezzar "Nebuchadnezzar ruled as king for 43 years" Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2 p.480 43 years
    Equals start of Nebuchadnezzar's reign Calculated by adding above figures 606 B.C.
    MinusNebuchadnezzar's 19th year 2 Kings 25:8-9 "And in the ... nineteenth year of King Neb·u·chad·nez´zar ... the servant of the king of Babylon, came to Jerusalem. And he proceeded to burn the house of Jehovah" 19th year
    Date for Destruction Therefore calculated as: 587 B.C.
  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Two things to keep in mind. No bible events can be given a date unless some marker is associated with an external verifiable event. I liken the problem to floating candles in a pond. The association of the candles to each other can be determined internally as bible events can be associated with each other, but to find a DATE one must anchor something to a known secular event.

    Secondly, one can determine that the Babylonian exile was for a different length than the WTS scholars claim simply by adding up the years of the succession of Kings. This has been done several times on the board.

  • Honesty
    Honesty

    All you need is Volume 2 of the INSIGHT on the SCRIPTURES, the January 1, 1965 Watchtower magazine page 29 and 2 Kings 25:8 to prove that Jerusalem DID NOT fall in 607 B.C.

    I posted the names of the rulers in the order that they appeared in the January 1, 1965 Watchtower magazine.

    I took the material presented in the Watchtower magazine and in 2 Kings 25:8 and DID the math.

    I did not use any other source to calculate the years that the Babylonian kings ruled.

    All anyone with a calculator and enough sense to read and understand that a ruler such as Evil-merodach who reigned for 2 years and was murdered, understands that the murder occurred in his 3rd year of reign.

    The same holds true for the other rulers listed in the January 1, 1965 Watchtower magazine...

    Neriglissar reigned for four years and died in the 5th year of his reign.

    Labashi-Marduk was assassinated during the 1st year of his reign.

    Nabonidus was in the 18th year of his reign when Babylon fell in 539 B.C. according to the Watchtower's INSIGHT on the SCRIPTURES book and the January 1, 1965 Watchtower magazine....

    *** INSIGHT on the SCRIPTURES ***

    Volume 2

    Page 457

    *** Nabonidus ***

    Last supreme monarch of the Babylonian Empire; father of Belshazzar. On the basis of cuneiform texts he is believed to have ruled some 17 years (556-539 B.C.E.). He was given to literature, art, and religion.

    In his own inscriptions Nabonidus claims to be of noble descent. A tablet found near ancient Haran gives evidence that Nabonidus’ mother or grandmother was a devotee of the moon-god Sin. (Ancient Near Eastern Texts, edited by J. Pritchard, 1974, pp. 311, 312) As king, Nabonidus showed great devotion to the worship of the moon-god, both at Haran and at Ur, where this god occupied a dominant position.—PICTURE, Vol. 2, p. 324.

    Cuneiform tablets of the eighth year of Nebuchadnezzar (Nisan 617-Nisan 616 B.C.E.) list a certain Nabu-na’id as the one "who is over the city," and some historians believe this is the same Nabonidus who later became king. However, this would mean that Nabonidus was a very young man when placed in such administrative position and would make him extremely aged at the fall of Babylon, some 77 years later (539 B.C.E.).

    Nebuchadnezzar entered Jerusalem in the 19th year of his reign according to 2 Kings 25:8...

    (2 Kings 25:8) . . .

    And in the fifth month on the seventh [day] of the month, that is to say, the nineteenth year of King Neb·u·chad·nez´zar the king of Babylon, Neb·u´zar·ad´an the chief of the bodyguard, the servant of the king of Babylon, came to Jerusalem.

    _______

    The Watchtower Society agrees that Babylon fell in 539 B.C. according to Volume 2 on Page 457 in the INSIGHT on the SCRIPTURES under the heading of Nabonidus [the information is quoted above].

    IT DOESN'T TAKE A DEGREE IN ROCKET SCIENCE TO START AT 539 B.C. and ADD the years up to arrive at the date of 585/586 INSTEAD of 607 B.C.

    *** w65 1/1 p. 29 The Rejoicing of the Wicked Is Short-lived ***

    Evil-merodach reigned two years and was murdered by his brother-in-law Neriglissar, who reigned for four years, which time he spent mainly in building operations. His underage son Labashi-Marduk, a vicious boy, succeeded him, and was assassinated within nine months. Nabonidus, who had served as governor of Babylon and who had been Nebuchadnezzar’s favorite son-in-law, took the throne and had a fairly glorious reign until Babylon fell in 539 B.C.E.

    2 Kings 25:8

    On the seventh day of the fifth month, which was the nineteenth year of King Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, Nebuzaradan, the commander of the guards, a servant of the king of Babylon, entered Jerusalem.

    ######

    I invite every reader to DO THE MATH and iF they find any ERRORS in the math to bring it to my attention.

  • KateWild
    KateWild

    Paul, jwfacts,

    Fantastically simple and to the point. You are the man. Well done for your site. Kate xx

  • Bart Belteshassur
    Bart Belteshassur

    Thanks all for that information, but I was aware of that already. I was really asking if we can show the correct time frame and disprove the WT arguement without any reference to exterernal secular sources. The WT will come up with an arguement to dismiss any secular derived dates which disagree with 607 BCE, there own Babylonian king list would be dismissed by them with some Satan induced problem, or the 20 years are lost from one king's reign somewher.

    However that said there must be other ways with the bible alone and or their own commentaries, references which must identify the true time frame. Once this is done they can chose a fixed date from Cryus onward which the time frame can be fitted into. I am sure thateven they would find it difficult to confirm their own teachings (unrelated to secular history) and then refuse to accept the true word of their own "slave" and NWT.

    Sorry I should have made my OP more specific. Thanks again all.

    BB

  • androb31

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