Posts by HereIam60

63

Toasting

by hoser in

jw
friends

when did the jws make the rule that you couldn’t clink glasses together and raise glasses of wine?.

and why the change to being a conscience matter now?.

HereIam60

I don't know if it was ever a rule, but like so many things individual witnesses would make it an issue.

Much of this "You Must Not..." attitude was, I think, fostered by the constant stream of printed literature we once had. Remember there were 2 issues each of The Watchtower and Awake! every month for decades. They had to keep coming up with topics to write about. Awake! was supposed to be tracking current subjects, social trends etc. and there came to be an unspoken attitude of 'If it was discussed in Awake it's not for Christians"..So people were down on an endless number of things....soap operas, aerobics martial arts, gym membership and so on. They would also do articles on the origins of customs, pointing out the 'pagan' background, so no wind chimes, "bless you" after sneezing, games of chance....and on and on.

Even if it wasn't in print people would undertake to criticize and "instruct" others unasked on choices of entertainment. You shouldn't watch Pokemon, Dawson's Creek, Harry Potter....

While studying, right after I was announced as an "approved associate" The Brother who conducted my study invited me to go bowling with a group of brothers and sisters. .I had not been in years and had never been very good at it, but on my first turn I got a strike. I said "It must be luck, because it's certainly not skill!". The brother pulled me aside and told me severely " We don't say Luck!" and referred to scripture about "setting a table for the god of good luck.." I was embarrassed and asked "What should I say?". He said I could say I was 'fortunate'.

This, like many "explanations" sounded convincing on a first hearing, but later I thought What's the big deal. I was kidding and all I meant was it was a happy random occurence. Besides, isn't the word Fortune itself derived from the name of a false god?

21

Why "Removed" instead of "Disfellowshipped or Shunning"

by blondie in

jw
friends

i was mulling this over last night...too much free time, i know.

both disfellowshipping and shunning indicate the action of avoiding someone, taking them out of your sphere of associates.

probably is a better sound bite to say "removed.

HereIam60

"Removed" sounds worse to me, as if the person had been physically escorted or carried out of the Kingdom Hall. Disfellowshipped should have meant withdrawing from close companionship for a time while continuing with normal, kind, social interaction, not total shunning.

3

Is "Cessationism" A Correct Bible Understanding & Teaching . . . What Do You Say? (See 1 Corinthians 13:8-12)

by AbaddonProvesIt in

is "cessationism" a correct bible understanding & teaching .

(see 1st corinthians 13:8-12).

the watchtower society believes and teaches "cessationism.

HereIam60

My belief is that the miraculous gifts (healings, tongues, visions, prophecies etc) did eventually cease. Jesus told his apostles and disciples made during his time on earth that when they recieved holy spirit they would be his witnesses to the most distant part of the earth, then shortly before his death he prayed in behalf of them, and those putting faith in him through their word.

These two groups, original apostles and disciples, and those they taught would seem to be the "annointed" christians, as the scripures relate that holy spirit and its gifts were recieved and used by them. Once the Christian congregarion was established the gifts eventually ceased but their love and unity remained as their identifying mark.

I do think there are very rare "miraculous" healings that occur today , but entirely through the power of God, not using any human agent. What little I've seen of modern so-called speaking in tongues seems like pychological excitement rather than actual language. Modern religious visions (Bayside prophecies, etc.) are very questionable, and prophecies made today seldom, if ever come true..

7

What was your deconstruction process from being a jw?

by Touchofgrey in

i became aware of jws and the un ,so i checked the internet and found it was true that they were a member, and that led me down the rabbits hole and started to look into the history of the bible students and the behaviour of russell and rutherford etc ,and how much the teaching changed and the internal politics and the failed end of the world teachings etc.. i then found myself in a no man's land regarding god and the bible, i then began to use critical thinking regarding the bible and if there was a god , looking into the origins of the bible and it's stories eg adam and eve story, flood legends, exodus from egypt and if the jesus story was historical or not etc .. looking at the origin of our universe and the planet earth led me to the conclusion that no god exists.

.

the purpose of this topic is just to understand your deconstruction purpose from the jws and not to get into arguments about our now held beliefs or lack of.

HereIam60

I still believe in some basic doctrinal teachings, but the 2 things that have shaken me most were:

The Governing Body announcing in 2013 that it Alone was "the faithful and discreet slave", after decades of it being believed to be the "annointed remnant". (I've always been in doubt about there being a special annointed class on earth at all today, so do not think either interperetation correct, but much Watchtower teaching was based on the former view, so this was a major change)

....the JW Broadcasting program of March 2015 on which Stephen Lett began by saying there was more money going out than coming in, and each part thereafter was about making contributions This, after years of claiming they would never beg or solicit funds. Clearly they had mismanaged " the Master's belongings"...

24

Armageddon 50th Anniversary

by apostrate in

well, it's been 50 years since armageddon occurred.. seems to me that things haven't really changed all that much.

is it just me or does anyone else seem to think that things have actually got worse??

?.

HereIam60

"...our creator must step in and clean up our mess...". Curiously perhaps that was never the way I looked at it, according to what I was tught during my first Witness bible study publication, though admittedly that was many years ago now.

It wasn't that God was going to clean it up, but rather intervene to stop it, and provide a new beginning, a re-set, when everyone would have to learn peace and righteouness, and thereafter work together to rebuild everything from the ground up, Armageddon supposing to have completely devastated the former world.

In more recent times, many seem to have the idea that, the Watchtower properties and structures at least will still be standing and functional. I thought it was supposed to take the thousand years to get everything in perfect order...

24

Armageddon 50th Anniversary

by apostrate in

well, it's been 50 years since armageddon occurred.. seems to me that things haven't really changed all that much.

is it just me or does anyone else seem to think that things have actually got worse??

?.

HereIam60

Of course they do not define "soon" and while still arousing hope, it doesn't really foster anticipation anymore. I recall a video talk some years ago from a convention. Poor Kenneth Cook, probably the least dynamic Watchtower speaker ever, was evidently trying to rouse the audience to a fever pitch of excitement, after describing blessings in the new world he asked, "... When will these promises be fufilled?....SOON! Very Soon!!!.." He looked like he was expecting a tremendous burst of applause...which did not follow...

20

How Can The Governing Body Be Considered The "Channel Of Communication" From Jehovah Without Being Inspired . . . How Is That Possible???

by AbaddonProvesIt in

video # 1,246: how can the governing body be considered the "channel of communication" from jehovah without being inspired .

the collapse of governing body member jeffrey winder's arguments: a critical look at a jehovah's witness excuse [by watchtower examination, winston gillum - montego bay, jamaica].

the governing body of jehovah's witnesses believe & teach millions upon millions of jehovah's witnesses world wide that they as a body, are not inspired or infallible.

HereIam60

Around 2013 the Governing Body announced that it alone, rather than the "annointed Christian remnant" was "the faithful and discreet slave" The 7/15/2013 Watchtower study article discussing this "Feeding Many Through the Hands of a Few" used Jesus' miaculous feeding of the large crowd listening to him as the basis for this change, in that only his apostles passed out the food to the crowd.

Since then, the statement has been made, verbally, and in print, that "Jesus did not say the slave would produce perfect spiritual food...". However, Jesus did not say that the slave would 'produce" the food at all, merely distribute it to the Master's household. On other occasions he said that man must not live on bead alone, but on God's Word, that his food was to do the will of his Father, and that his, to be sacrificed, flesh and blood was true food and drink.

This says to me, that the 'job' of the slave is to distribute the Bible, and the Christian message, not to issue directives and commands or to oversee the lives of the fellow domestics of God's household. The GB has said they are "spirit-directed" but not "inspired", but like so many things this is purposely kept vague with no clear explanation given.. One contoversial statement made was the " the Governing Body could be likened to the voice of Jesus...." (NO!)

This change was probably planned for a long time, as for years unclear statements were made that "The FDS was 'closely associated" with brothers serving at world headquarters, that there was 'no worldwide network' of annointed ones, and implications made that many professing being annointed were mentally confused. (Frankly, I always had a hard time believing that anyone in this day and age were annointed, in the sense of being selected for heavenly rulership with Christ.)

Although it's still being said the remainng annointed will eventually be gathered to heaven, the self election of the GB to being the FDS, essentially dismissed the idea of there being an annointed class on earth today.

28

SPIMI Friend Asked Me For The Name Of My (FORMER) Congregation

by HiddlesWife in

jw
friends

a present-spimi friend texted me to ask me the name of my congregation--which is my former and last one that i left right after becoming completely/presently pomo.

she was a longtime buddy, who was pimq-pimo-ppimi-on-occasion for many decades.

then shortly before the pandemic, she was dating a brother who was reaching out to become an ms [mind you, this guy was a mic-handler for several decades as well--until an older brother (who was a close friend of his uncle--who converted him into the cultporation years ago--encouraged him to the point of harrassing him to move up the wt corporate ladder🙄😤].

HereIam60

Do you want to remain in occasional contact with her? If so you could answer what she asked, then see how she responds. If you dont like the reply you don't need to communicate further....but you really don't need to respond to it at all. ( There has always been a mixed message within the congregations 'Have love for the whole association of brothers...Love one another intensely from the heart....But also be on guard against "bad associations"... even among the brothers and sisters!)

36

Few JW leader have children

by slimboyfat in

it’s been discussed before that few jw leaders, past and present, have had children.

this is in contrast with other groups, such as the mormons, whose leaders have had a lot of children.

i wonder if this has impacted jw growth.

HereIam60

I've heard numerous comments over the years of witnesses commending the fact that "we do not seperate our children (into nurseries or Sunday Schools)...they learn right here with us!". In a recent public talk I heard this was implied to be a safety measue, along the lines of "... they are not isolated, we know where they are and can give them protective oversight..." This is probably a recent insertion into that talk's outline. It overlooks the fact that numerous public talks of the past contained subject matter not usually considered appropriate to discuss before children.

Something that has prompted many comments in online forums is that the next publication to be used for the midweek meeting 'Congregation Bible Study' is the children book "Lessons You Can Learn from the Bible" - a revision of the old 'My Book of Bible Stories'

As this will begin in just a few weeks it will be interesting to see how it is introduced and presented, possibly as "a loving provision to teach our young ones, and to renew the understanding and appreciation of the Bible accounts for all of us..."

As this is scheduled as the final part of a meeting often held in the evening, it's been pointed out that it will come at a time when some small children will be getting tired and sleepy. I hope there won't be enforced participation, though thankfully we seem to have moved away from the days when spankings were the norm for inatentiveness.

It will also be interesting to see how this goes over in a congregation like ours where there are virtually no kids in regular. attendance. The youngest "regulars" we have are in their early 20s, and the only children seen infrequently are grandchildren occasionally brought by their grandparents.

12

"Perfect Angels"? A Subtle Shift in Watchtower Doctrine — And Why It Matters

by raymond frantz in

"perfect angels"?

a subtle shift in watchtower doctrine — and why it matters.

quoted paragraph from the watchtower september 2025, study article 38, paragraph 12:.

HereIam60

You made some good points there. Frankly, I doubt that the writers of the article have given as much thought to it as you have.

One question I've always had is why the New World Translation at 1 Thessalonians 4:16 speaks of Jesus descending with "an archangel's voice" as if there were more than one, rather than saying "the" archangel's voice. This seems to vary in different bibles, but I'm no Greek scholar.

I have wondered if there are "theological shifts" in the works. The lack of much "deep" study material in recent times, and the slowness at which the weekly assigned Bible reading currently proceeds means it will be a long time until the New Testament books are directly discussed again. Possibly someone is working on revised interperations of some previous teachings, and Revelation...or perhaps not...!