We are in agreement. But, once we have received the fullness of Christ, and experienced the riches of his peace and wealth, there is a difference in rewards between those who choose to relax on Daddy's Yacht and those who choose to do some heavy lifting and don't mind getting dirty in the process.
Posts by Perry
-
129Does consciousness end with the death of the body
by givemejustalittlemoretime inapparently, the carvakas in anceint hinduism were materialists and skeptics, arguing that consciousness ends with the death of the body and that therefore we should take pleasure in this life while we possess it and practice compassion toward others.
they also argued that direct observation is the only certain way to know anything, and thus the existence of supernatural forces and realities cannot be established and must be rejected.
-
-
-
129
Does consciousness end with the death of the body
by givemejustalittlemoretime inapparently, the carvakas in anceint hinduism were materialists and skeptics, arguing that consciousness ends with the death of the body and that therefore we should take pleasure in this life while we possess it and practice compassion toward others.
they also argued that direct observation is the only certain way to know anything, and thus the existence of supernatural forces and realities cannot be established and must be rejected.
-
-
Perry
The Bema seat judgment is not for judgment concerning slavation. That was forever taken care of at the cross. It is a judgment concerning rewards, responsibilities, etc. in his kingdom. Research it out.
Jesus made it clear in a number of parables that his servants are given varying amounts of "talents". They are rewarded on how wisely they invest what they have been given.
In Acts 10 Jesus wants everyone to know this:
And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom they killed by hanging on a tree. 40 Him God raised up on the third day, and showed Him openly, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living [ie. the believer] and the dead [ie. the unbeliever].
-
129
Does consciousness end with the death of the body
by givemejustalittlemoretime inapparently, the carvakas in anceint hinduism were materialists and skeptics, arguing that consciousness ends with the death of the body and that therefore we should take pleasure in this life while we possess it and practice compassion toward others.
they also argued that direct observation is the only certain way to know anything, and thus the existence of supernatural forces and realities cannot be established and must be rejected.
-
-
Perry
justgivemealittletime,
It is easy and tempting to extrapolate these findings into all kinds of metaphyical ideas, many of which are not biblical. There is plenty of that on the internet. The double slit experiments are just a very small window into the kind of universe that we actually live in. It confirms much of what the bible says.
But, I believe it also confirms other cliche's that float around as wisdom such as:
1. Mind over matter
2. when the student is ready, the teacher shall appear
3. You are what you think
etc., etc., etc.
I believe the main thing it confirms is the formative and creative power of faith/belief/observation. ("What are you seeing O son of man"?) I believe that when this spirit is directed/committed to God the father, through the blood of his Son (ALONE), then his creative mind meets us somewhere and an eternal connection is made that cannot be broken.
The scriptures are clear that the choices we make here on this earth, in this body, have eternal consequenses.
This particular judgment below, is ONLY for believers, their salvation is not on the table here. It is the BEMA seat judgment. Yet, believers are still judged.
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." 2 Cor. 5:10
Believers are judged for things "done in his body" because the moment they fully trust in Jesus, they are given a new spirit that CANNOT sin. Only then are "you" beyond the reaches of judgment. When believers follow this new identity / principle, they do not sin. When they don't, they do.
What we do, and the choices we make always matter. Thankfully, faith in the blood of Jesus makes us legally righteous.
-
129
Does consciousness end with the death of the body
by givemejustalittlemoretime inapparently, the carvakas in anceint hinduism were materialists and skeptics, arguing that consciousness ends with the death of the body and that therefore we should take pleasure in this life while we possess it and practice compassion toward others.
they also argued that direct observation is the only certain way to know anything, and thus the existence of supernatural forces and realities cannot be established and must be rejected.
-
-
Perry
The only thing that matters is whether or not the photons are detected or interacted with in any way prior to or after passing through the slits.... This has absolutely nothing to do with consciousness. If it does how?
Mad Giant,
The experiments PROVE that not only is human observation and planning ALONE the determining factor, but also time and distance is irrelevant:
"But now let’s destroy our ability to measure the which-way paths of the s photons, but without interfering with them in any way. We can do this by placing a polarizing window in the path of the other photon P, far away. This plate will stop the second detector from registering coincidences. It’ll measure only some of the photons, and effectively scramble up the double-signals. Since a coincidence-counter is essential here in delivering information about the completion of the twins’ journeys, it has now been rendered thoroughly unreliable. The entire apparatus will now be uselessly unable to let us learn which slit individual photons take when they travel along path S because we won’t be able to compare them with their twins – since nothing registers unless the coincidence counter allows it to. And let’s be clear: We’ve left the QWPs in place for photon S. All we’ve done is to meddle with the p photon’s path in a way that removes our ability to use the coincidence counter to gain which-way knowledge. (The set-up, to review, delivers information to us, registers “hits,” only when polarity is measured at detector S AND the coincidence counter tells us that either a matching or non-matching polarity has been simultaneously registered by the twin photon at detector P). The result:
They’re waves again. The interference pattern is back. The physical places on the back screen where the photons or electrons taking path s hit have now changed. Yet we did nothing to these photons’ paths, from their creation at the crystal all the way to the final detector. We even left the QWPs in place. All we did was meddle with the twin photon far away so that it destroyed our ability to learn information. The only change was in our minds. How could photons taking path S possibly know that we put that other polarizer in place — somewhere else, far from their own paths? And QT tells us that we’d get this same result even if we placed the information-ruiner at the other end of the universe.
(Also, by the way, this proves that it wasn’t those QWP plates that were causing the photons to change from waves to particles, and to alter the impact points on the detector. We now get an interference pattern even with the QWPs in place. It’s our knowledge alone that the photons or electrons seem concerned about. This alone influences their actions.)
Okay, this is bizarre. Yet these results happen every time, without fail. They’re telling us that an observer determines physical behavior of “external” objects. Could it get any weirder? Hold on: Now we’ll try something even more radical – an experiment only first performed in 2002. Thus far the experiment involved erasing the which-way information by meddling with the path of p and then measuring its twin s. Perhaps some sort of communication takes place between photon p and s, letting s know what we will learn, and therefore giving it the green light to be a particle or a wave and either create or not create an interference pattern. Maybe when photon p meets the polarizer it sends s an IM (instant message) at infinite speed, so that photon s knows it must materialize into a real entity instantly, which has to be a particle since only particles can go through one slit or the other and not both. Result: No interference pattern.
To check out whether this is so, we’ll do one more thing. First we’ll stretch out the distance p photons have to take until they reach their detector, so it’ll take them more time to get there. This way, photons taking the S route will hit their own detectors first. But oddly enough, the results do not change! When we insert the QWPs to path S the fringes are gone; and when we insert the polarizing scrambler to path P and lose the coincidence-measuring ability that lets us determine which-way info for the S photons, the fringes return as before. But how can this be? Photons taking the S-path already finished their journeys. They either went through one or the other slit, or both. They either collapsed their “wave function” and became a particle or they didn’t. The game’s over, the action’s finished. They’ve each already hit the final barrier and were detected – before twin p encountered the polarizing scrambling device that would rob us of which-way information.
The photons somehow know whether or not we will gain the which-way information in the future. They decide not to collapse into particles before their distant twins even encounter our scrambler. (If we take away the P scrambler, the S photons suddenly revert to being particles, again before P’s photons reach their detector and activate the coincidence counter.) Somehow, photon s knows whether the “which-way” marker will be erased even though neither it, nor its twin, have yet encountered an erasing mechanism. It knows when its interference behavior can be present, when it can safely remain in its fuzzy both-slits ghost reality, because it apparently knows photon p — far off in the distance — is going to eventually hit the scrambler, and that this will ultimately prevent us from learning which way p went.
It doesn’t matter how we set up the experiment. Our mind and its knowledge or lack of it is the only thing that determines how these bits of light or matter behave."
.
.
So, since the facts show that the mind itself is creating the measurable reality .....I would argue that it is doing so in the image and likeness of its Creator. Our bodies obviously cannot exist outside of space / time confinements, but science is now showing that our minds/soul/spirit certainly does; just as our Creator does. And furthermore, the universe is designed for this very purpose at levels we are just now beginning to understand from a scientific point of view.
"For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he"
-
129
Does consciousness end with the death of the body
by givemejustalittlemoretime inapparently, the carvakas in anceint hinduism were materialists and skeptics, arguing that consciousness ends with the death of the body and that therefore we should take pleasure in this life while we possess it and practice compassion toward others.
they also argued that direct observation is the only certain way to know anything, and thus the existence of supernatural forces and realities cannot be established and must be rejected.
-
-
Perry
the presence of the photon as it passes through the slit, has absolutely nothing to do with consciousness
Mad Giant,
Go ahead and tell us what the photon behavior does have to do with... if not consciousness. You can win the nobel prize right here.
You know more than these folks?
“… Robert Lanza’s work is a wake-up call to all of us”
—David Thompson, Astrophysicist, NASA’s Goddard Space Flight CenterYou should enjoy this book, and it should help you on your personal journey to understanding.”
—Richard Conn Henry, Professor of Physics and Astronomy, Johns Hopkins UniversityThis new theory is certain to revolutionize our concepts of the laws of nature for centuries to come.”—Anthony Atala, renowned scientist, W.H. Boyce Professor, Chair, and Director of the Institute for Regenerative Medicine, Wake Forest University School of Medicine
The scientific experiments show that consciousness must somehow exist outside of space & time, is part of the fabric of the universe, impacts reality and somehow does a little bit (or a lot) of creating along the way. This is consistent with a biblical point of view:
Genesis 1:27 - So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
-
129
Does consciousness end with the death of the body
by givemejustalittlemoretime inapparently, the carvakas in anceint hinduism were materialists and skeptics, arguing that consciousness ends with the death of the body and that therefore we should take pleasure in this life while we possess it and practice compassion toward others.
they also argued that direct observation is the only certain way to know anything, and thus the existence of supernatural forces and realities cannot be established and must be rejected.
-
-
Perry
Did the universe give birth to mind? Or, does mind direct the universe?
How else are we to understand the implications of the two slit experiments?
See Robert Lanza's work
-
43
When You See A Witness What's Your Reaction?
by minimus inis it a feeling of---oh no!!?.
are you happy to see them?.
do you have a feeling of consternation?.
-
-
Perry
My heart goes out to them. I immediately wonder who their cousins, aunts and uncles might be that are praying for them. I do everything I can to try and talk to them most of the time.
-
129
Does consciousness end with the death of the body
by givemejustalittlemoretime inapparently, the carvakas in anceint hinduism were materialists and skeptics, arguing that consciousness ends with the death of the body and that therefore we should take pleasure in this life while we possess it and practice compassion toward others.
they also argued that direct observation is the only certain way to know anything, and thus the existence of supernatural forces and realities cannot be established and must be rejected.
-
-
Perry
Interesting article in Psychology Today:
Consider the famous two-slit experiment. When you watch a particle go through the holes, it behaves like a bullet, passing through one slit or the other. But if no one observes the particle, it exhibits the behavior of a wave and can pass through both slits at the same time. This and other experiments tell us that unobserved particles exist only as ‘waves of probability' as the great Nobel laureate Max Born demonstrated in 1926. They're statistical predictions – nothing but a likely outcome. Until observed, they have no real existence; only when the mind sets the scaffolding in place, can they be thought of as having duration or a position in space. Experiments make it increasingly clear that even mere knowledge in the experimenter's mind is sufficient to convert possibility to reality.
Many scientists dismiss the implications of these experiments, because until recently, this observer-dependent behavior was thought to be confined to the subatomic world. However, this is being challenged by researchers around the world. In fact, just this year a team of physicists (Gerlich et al, Nature Communications 2:263, 2011) showed that quantum weirdness also occurs in the human-scale world. They studied huge compounds composed of up to 430 atoms, and confirmed that this strange quantum behavior extends into the larger world we live in.
Importantly, this has a direct bearing on the question of whether humans and other living creatures have souls. As Kant pointed out over 200 years ago, everything we experience – including all the colors, sensations and objects we perceive – are nothing but representations in our mind. Space and time are simply the mind's tools for putting it all together. Now, to the amusement of idealists, scientists are beginning dimly to recognize that those rules make existence itself possible. Indeed, the experiments above suggest that objects only exist with real properties if they are observed. The results not only defy our classical intuition, but suggest that a part of the mind – the soul – is immortal and exists outside of space and time.
"The hope of another life" wrote Will Durant "gives us courage to meet our own death, and to bear with the death of our loved ones; we are twice armed if we fight with faith."
And we are thrice armed if we fight with science.
-
129
Does consciousness end with the death of the body
by givemejustalittlemoretime inapparently, the carvakas in anceint hinduism were materialists and skeptics, arguing that consciousness ends with the death of the body and that therefore we should take pleasure in this life while we possess it and practice compassion toward others.
they also argued that direct observation is the only certain way to know anything, and thus the existence of supernatural forces and realities cannot be established and must be rejected.
-
-
Perry
Humans were created in the image and likeness of God, a tri-partite being. Man's spirit is eternal. He was created to eternally be in fellowship with God. A person CANNOT cease consciousness, no matter how much a person may want to. (Body yes, but spirit...no)
It is man's spirit that is in God's image. Man's body was formed from the dust, but his spirit (or inner man) was breathed into him by God. Genesis 2:7 says: "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul". From this verse we have the picture of Adam's lifeless body being formed from the dust, God breathing life into his nostrils, and the body then coming to life.
DEATH DESCRIBED
When we die our spirit leaves our body. James 2:26 says "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." The spirit does not go out of existence when it is separated from the body in death, but returns to God who gave it Ecclesiastes 12:7 says; "Then shall the dust (body) return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (life) shall return unto God who gave it." This verse not only defines death as the separation of the body from the spirit, but it also shows that man's spirit is eternal , it does not go out of existence at death, but returns to God.
Notice also the description of Rachel's death. "And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin." --- Genesis 35:18 Jehovah's Witnesses teach that there is no difference between the soul and body, They claim that both are mortal and go into the grave together. The description of Rachel's death however clearly shows that the soul and body are not the same thing. Rachel's body was lifeless, but at death her soul left her body.
The death the widow of Zarephath.'s son and his revival gives further insight into the soul of man. This young man was raised miraculously from the dead by Elijah. 1 Kings 17:21-22 describes this miracle. "And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again. {22} And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived."
We notice here that it was the same soul that left him at death and returned to him at revival. His soul therefore did not go out of existence. The person that Elijah resurrected from the dead was the same person that was alive before death. It was not another soul that was given to the lifeless body, but the same one as was conceived in the widows womb through the union of her and her husband. If the soul became extinct at his death, this would be impossible.PEOPLE ARE STILL "ALIVE" AFTER DEATH
This may seem like a contradiction in terms, yet the Lord Himself plainly explains that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were still alive even though they were dead. He said "And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? {27} He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err." --- Mark 12:26-27. This was the Lord's answer to the Saducees who did not believe in life after death. What plainer proof could be given for the immortality of the soul than these verses. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were all dead (in their graves) when Jehovah declared Himself to be their God. Although they were departed from this world, their spirits continued to live. Jehovah could not be the God of extinct persons.
The Lord also taught the immortality of the human soul in Matthew 10:28 --- "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Tertallion, an ancient writer rightly said of this verse "Here we have recognition of the natural immortality of the soul, which cannot be killed by men" -
12
Harrass them before they harrass you
by SonoftheTrinity inwhy don't dfs who really know how evil jehovah's witnesses are just harrass them as they go door knocking so that when someone intervenes to defend them they get a balanced story about what the jehovah's witnesses are all about.
the ones that were raised in it were raised to be anti-intellectual wusses, they aren't going to win a debate or kick anyone's ass.
but they certainly deserve philosophical and rhetorical smackdowns, they deserve haters standing in their way as they go harrassing everybody in the neighborhood.
-
-
Perry
Jehovah's witnesses are not evil, just deceived. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
