Posts by peacefulpete

9

Ever changing teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses

by Vanderhoven7 in

some might be interested in this comprehensive list of changes and reversals in the channel of truth.. reading history:.

ever-changing teachings of jehovah's witnesses.

the most important changes in the doctrine of the watchtower society in the years 1879-2015. .

peacefulpete

Too long to copy and paste. You just need to create an account. It's free and the website is a good resource for research.

2

Lost Gospel Series

by peacefulpete in

i thought it would be fun to take a brief look at various gospels in use by christians of the first few centuries ce.

one each week.

a few weeks back i posted regarding the egerton gospel which i cleverly misspelled edgerton gospel.. for now consider the oxyrhynchus gospel 840:.

I thought it would be fun to take a brief look at various Gospels in use by Christians of the first few centuries CE. One each week. A few weeks back I posted regarding the Egerton Gospel which I cleverly misspelled Edgerton Gospel.

For now consider the Oxyrhynchus Gospel 840:

". . . earlier, before doing wrong, he slyly reasons everything out. Be careful that you do not end up suffering the same fate as them. For the evil-doers of humanity receive retribution not only among the living, but they will also undergo punishment and much torture later."
Taking them along, he went into the place of purification itself and wandered around in the temple. Then a certain high priest of the Pharisees named Levi came toward them and said to the savior, "Who permitted you to wander in this place of purification and to see these holy vessels, even though you have not bathed and the feet of your disciples have not been washed? And now that you have defiled it, you walk around in this pure area of the temple where only a person who has bathed and changed his clothes can walk, and even such a person does not dare to look upon these holy vessels."
Standing nearby with his disciples, the savior replied, "Since you are here in the temple too, are you clean?"
The Pharisee said to him, "I am clean. For I bathed in the pool of David. I went down into the pool by one set of stairs and came back out by another. Then I put on white clothes and they were clean. And then I came and looked at these holy vessels."
Replying to him, the savior said, "Woe to blind people who do not see! You have washed in the gushing waters that dogs and pigs are thrown into day and night. And when you washed yourself, you scrubbed the outer layer of skin, the layer of skin that prostitutes and flute-girls anoint and wash and scrub when they put on make up to become the desire of the men. But inside they are filled with scorpions and all unrighteousness. But my disciples and I, whom you say have not washed, we have washed in waters of eternal life that come from the God of heaven. But woe to those . . . "

The fragment preserved was a 4th century portable codex copy, perhaps meant for public instruction, but the text is dated much earlier, mid first to mid second century. Similar in age to the Canonical Gospels, this text shows similar styling and theme yet, as far as this fragment can tell us, no direct dependence on them. This is an original composition, another apparently independent Gospel tradition tragically lost.

Recall the Synoptic Gospels (Mark, Matt and Luke) are in reality just 3 recensions of the same story. Gospel John shows a familiarity with the Synoptics but is no mere redaction, rather an original retelling with a flavor distinctive of a community on the fringes of what the Catholic Fathers can accommodate in their efforts to formulate a universalizing dogma. That's what makes the G.John so much more interesting. Same would probably be said of Oxy 840 had it survived. What we do know is that it was treasured and preserved for hundreds of years.

6

Quince?

by peacefulpete in

jw
friends

anyone have a quince tree?

we found one growing by a large brick building and picked some fruit last summer.

a bit too far north normally but this one survives.

peacefulpete

Not being familiar with your reference I had to research it. Edward Lear never made much of an appearance in the US. Sounds like another tragic troubled poet.

6

Quince?

by peacefulpete in

jw
friends

anyone have a quince tree?

we found one growing by a large brick building and picked some fruit last summer.

a bit too far north normally but this one survives.

peacefulpete

Anyone have a quince tree? We found one growing by a large brick building and picked some fruit last summer. A bit too far north normally but this one survives. We made a sauce with it, lots of sugar, not sure what else to do. Figured we could use it somehow later. I'm now looking at the jars, any ideas?

48

2024 when will Witnesses admit they are wrong???

by Witness 007 in

1914 generation is long gone.

1975 was a joke 40 years ago.

i know of many witnesses still hanging on for armagedon but when will they give up?

peacefulpete

'Running ahead of Jah's chariot'

You'd think Jah could afford a jet by now.

83

Who Pays The Ferryman....?

by hillary_step in

french philosopher blaise pascal once noted, "men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.

" a case study for this statement can clearly be evidenced by the governing body of jehovahs witnesses.. the gb present themselves as lovers of truth and righteousness who are the only persons on this planet who speak for god.

this doctrine is at the very core of the beliefs of jehovahs witnesses and is one of the few that cannot be rationalized away by wts apologists.

peacefulpete

One of my favorite OPs.

8

Do or Do not Do

by peacefulpete in

" (greece; 4th century bce)

" (greece; 5th century bce)

2nd century bce.

peacefulpete

Other interesting examples of the Golden Rule:

Recognize that your neighbor feels as you do, and keep in mind your own dislikes.— Sirach 31:15

.....and a very mysterious document titled the Epistle to the Colossians by Paul discovered by Theodor von Zahn (document dated to 8th century) reads in part:

There shall be neither witnesses nor companions, neither shall judgment be given by gifts; for there is nothing better than faith, truth, chastity, fasting, and almsgiving which puts out all sins. And that which you would not have done to yourself, do not unto another. Agree in yourselves for the kingdom of God and you shall receive the crown which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Interestingly, it is a negative variant.

78

How can Babylon the Great be the WORLD of false religion?

by BoogerMan in

(revelation 17:5) “babylon the great, the mother of the prostitutes (plural!

) and of the disgusting things of the earth.”.

btg is spotlighted as being the principal "disgusting thing" which affects christians & christianity, with other lesser "prostitutes" in the background... (revelation 18:4) “get out of her, my people, (christians) if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.".

peacefulpete

It is one of the marks of a mature thinker to seek out multiple expert opinions allowing that taken together they likely represent more than the individual efforts on their own. People who have themselves read and studied a topic as a career are certainly worthy of consulting. Even views that are effectively refuted through better data or reasoning, offer value as exercises. It would be nice if the first book we read on a topic (especially a topic like religious history) had the whole picture but that would be asking too much.

This approach to life in general results in conclusions based upon best evidence. Who could expect more?

78

How can Babylon the Great be the WORLD of false religion?

by BoogerMan in

(revelation 17:5) “babylon the great, the mother of the prostitutes (plural!

) and of the disgusting things of the earth.”.

btg is spotlighted as being the principal "disgusting thing" which affects christians & christianity, with other lesser "prostitutes" in the background... (revelation 18:4) “get out of her, my people, (christians) if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.".

peacefulpete

P.S. Sure. The early distinction of Judaism-Christianity was likely pretty fuzzy. The many varied expectations within Judaism and the many failed Messiahs complicate any simple definition. However, the suggestion is that an existing apocalyptic document had been wholly or partially utilized by later writer/redactors with Christain specific language interpolated in a similar manner as the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs or the Apocalypse of Abraham, etc. had been.

That would explain a great deal. The broken narrative, piecemeal nature, the apparent overt Christian additions, even the unclear, even multiple internal interpretations. Redactors, as you know, were not always careful or thorough. If they were, we would never see their hand.

There are those who suggest the writer edited his own work after conversion. Possible but I'd think he would have easily recognized the strain within his own writing.

78

How can Babylon the Great be the WORLD of false religion?

by BoogerMan in

(revelation 17:5) “babylon the great, the mother of the prostitutes (plural!

) and of the disgusting things of the earth.”.

btg is spotlighted as being the principal "disgusting thing" which affects christians & christianity, with other lesser "prostitutes" in the background... (revelation 18:4) “get out of her, my people, (christians) if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.".

peacefulpete

P.S. have you formulated an opinion regarding source critical analyses that see the work as a compilation of Jewish and Christian elements?