Unfortunately, the church is still a high control, isolationist, fear mongering sect. The changes are cosmetic, some born of legal necessity, some because of modernization like all churches, some the result of change in personnel at the top.
peacefulpete
JoinedPosts by peacefulpete
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9
New Light and Update tracking
by jwundubbed indoes anyone have a list of all the new light or gb updates in order?
is there a post here that lists all the changes in the organization?
i left about 1996 and i haven't kept up, but it seems like a completely different organization than it was when i was in it.
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What If?
by peacefulpete inrecent news about beards is getting lots of attention.
it made me wonder if any guys will return to the church under the impression that 'so much has changed'.
back when, i knew a couple guys who were outspoken about beards, seeing it as an issue, and was never terribly moved by their viewpoint.
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peacefulpete
Great comments, please anyone else?
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What does God eat ?
by stan livedeath inbeans ?
( human beans ).
to those of you that believe in god: do you all believe the same thing ?.
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peacefulpete
Aristophanes was the Richard Pryor of his day.
Here again in another play (Plutus) he has the gods starving because humans are refusing to sacrifice because of having been mistreated:
Cario
Eh! friend, was it you who knocked so loudly? Tell me.Hermes
No, I was going to knock and you forestalled me by opening. Come, call your master quick, then his wife and his children, [1105] then his slave and his dog, then yourself and his pig.Cario
And what's it all about?Hermes
It's about this, rascal! Zeus wants to serve you all with the same sauce and hurl the lot of you into the Barathrum.Cario
aside
[1110] Have a care for your tongue, you bearer of ill tidings!To Hermes But why does he want to treat us in that scurvy fashion?Hermes
Because you have committed the most dreadful crime. Since Plutus has recovered his sight, there is nothing for us other gods, neither incense, nor laurels, [1115] nor cakes, nor victims, nor anything in the world.Cario
And you will never be offered anything more; you governed us too ill.Hermes
I care nothing at all about the other gods, but it's myself. I tell you I am dying of hunger.Cario
That's reasoning like a wise fellow.Hermes
[1120] Formerly, from earliest dawn, I was offered all sorts of good things in the wine-shops, —wine-cakes, honey, dried figs, in short, dishes worthy of Hermes. Now, I lie the livelong day on my back, with my legs in the air, famishing.Cario
And quite right too, for you [1125] often had them punished who treated you so well.Hermes
Ah! the lovely cake they used to knead for me on the fourth of the month!Cario
You recall it vainly; your regrets are useless!Hermes
Ah! the ham I was wont to devour!Cario
Well then! make use of your legs and hop on one leg upon the wineskin, to while away the time.Hermes
[1130] Oh! the grilled entrails I used to swallow down!Cario
Your own have got the colic, I think.Hermes
Oh! the delicious tipple, half-wine, half-water!Cario
Here, take this and be off.He farts.
Hermes
in tragic style
Would you render service to the friend that loves you? -
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What does God eat ?
by stan livedeath inbeans ?
( human beans ).
to those of you that believe in god: do you all believe the same thing ?.
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peacefulpete
The ancient comic playwright Aristophanes depicted the gods as dying of hunger after the smoke of sacrifices were stopped.
(Birds, 1515] Since you founded this city in the air. There is not a man who now sacrifices to the gods; the smoke of the victims no longer reaches us. Not the smallest offering comes! We fast as though it were the festival of Demeter. [1520] The barbarian gods, who are dying of hunger, are bawling like Illyrians and threaten to make an armed descent upon Zeus, if he does not open markets where joints of the victims are sold.
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What If?
by peacefulpete inrecent news about beards is getting lots of attention.
it made me wonder if any guys will return to the church under the impression that 'so much has changed'.
back when, i knew a couple guys who were outspoken about beards, seeing it as an issue, and was never terribly moved by their viewpoint.
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peacefulpete
What have you learned through your experience outside the JWs that would inform your choice to return or not?
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Help urgently needed.
by MissDaSilva ina sister has snitched on me.
got a message from my group overseer requesting a little chat to see if i’m okay.
urgent suggestions needed please.
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peacefulpete
Thank them for their concern and assure them if you want to talk, you will approach them. "Please respect my wish to sort this out myself." Close the door.
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What If?
by peacefulpete inrecent news about beards is getting lots of attention.
it made me wonder if any guys will return to the church under the impression that 'so much has changed'.
back when, i knew a couple guys who were outspoken about beards, seeing it as an issue, and was never terribly moved by their viewpoint.
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peacefulpete
Recent news about beards is getting lots of attention. It made me wonder if any guys will return to the church under the impression that 'so much has changed'. Back when, I knew a couple guys who were outspoken about beards, seeing it as an issue, and was never terribly moved by their viewpoint. Now mind you I usually didn't shave whenever I had the chance, because it just felt natural and masculine, but it was never an issue "worth dying over" (being the believer I was). In reflection, I didn't understand the more fundamental reason it was an issue for the guys, then again, maybe they didn't know why it bothered them so much. Instinctive maybe.
Since then, opinions about vaccines seems to be a favorite topic. On this forum there seems to be people who felt the emphasis on vaccines was proof the church was not what is claimed to be. (Please let's not discuss that again.)
What if?
If next year a new version of the JWs came about, one that didn't care about vaccines, beards, transfusions and pantsuits; one that let you talk to former members and go to college; one that let you decide about who you married and whether you want to vote. Would you return if doing so:
...meant that you would have to believe
In things like Heaven and in Jesus and the Saints
And all the ProphetsTo quote J Osborn.
What have you learned through your experience outside the JWs that would inform your choice to return or not?
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47
What does God eat ?
by stan livedeath inbeans ?
( human beans ).
to those of you that believe in god: do you all believe the same thing ?.
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peacefulpete
Another interesting passage in the Elijah cycle (1 Kings 19) an angel provided Elijah a meal of a cake and water. He goes on in the wilderness for 40 days and nights sustained miraculously by it.
Typologically Jeus is depicted as having the same experience. Mark briefly says:
13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
The Matthean redactor of this story adds a whole sequence of temptations to fill the 40 days. He ends with the angelic ministering. In effect he changed his source by placing the feeding of Jesus after the 40 days rather than before as was the original Elijah model. The Elijah version has the advantage of explain how a 40 day fast was possible.....He was fed manna cake from an angel!
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What does God eat ?
by stan livedeath inbeans ?
( human beans ).
to those of you that believe in god: do you all believe the same thing ?.
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peacefulpete
As a side note, the concern about "eating foods sacrificed to idols" was due to the idea of sharing a meal with the god/demon. This seems to be support for the idea that gods are vicariously eating/enjoying the sacrificed foods.
Another thought. In Luke a story is added in which Jesus is depicted as eating with his disciples after his resurrection. A point made strenuously to prove the physical nature of Jesus. As one of the controversies dividing the early Christians this story doesn't seem to be motivated by a desire to show spirits can eat but rather the opposite. Rather strangely, the manuscripts are divided on the addition of the "honeycomb" as one of the foods Jesus ate. One has to wonder.........
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What does God eat ?
by stan livedeath inbeans ?
( human beans ).
to those of you that believe in god: do you all believe the same thing ?.
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peacefulpete
It is an interesting question. Naturally people imagined the gods as enjoying food like themselves, but also imagined they might have special god-food. The Greeks' stories often feature 'ambrosia' as a nectar/honey food/drink that sustains the gods and also imbues immortality on mortals if they eat, hence it is prohibited.
Similarly, the Eden story suggests the prohibited tree/fruit makes the eater 'like one of us' according to the gods/spirits of the story. The choice to symbolize this forbidden food as a tree is certainly connected to the ubiquitous connection of life and fertility to trees and fruit and the goddess in her many forms. The Norse mythology depicts the gods as sustained by the apples of Idun a young woman, a myth with ancient connections.
In the OT, God send 'manna' down from heaven. It tastes like "wafers made with honey". Psalm 78:25 says the manna was angel food.
The honey/nectar/fruit associations are anciently assumed to be a favorite of the gods.
However gods also have a taste for meats and grains. In a number of ancient myths the gods are seen as desiring to eat flesh and grains but seemingly unable as terms of their separation from mortal men. Humans wishing to appease the gods would send up meat smoke to please them. As a practical matter what was burned was often the inedible parts, the blood, bones, fat and innards.
And apparently gods like wine. Judges 9 says
‘Should I leave my wine, which cheereth God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees?’
When making burnt offerings a gallon per lamb is the designated ratio in Lev 23. Again in this passage the food is enjoyed vicariously. The God can merely enjoy the smells.
I contrast the stories in Gen 19 and 26 assumes Yahweh and other spirits can share a meal with people. These very anthropomorphic stories stand out in the OT and likely retain are some very ancient conceptions of Gods from the northern tradition.